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Copper for a bushing

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f350ca

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#1
Im building a snow blower. The auger flighting will be welded to a piece of 2 inch sched 40 pipe. The pipe will be bushed and shear pinned to a 1 1/4 solid shaft. Steel on steel will rust and lock the joint, making the shear pin useless. I have no brass or bronze at the time, would a piece of copper pipe work to isolate the two. ie press a copper sleeve into the bushing to let it rotate on the solid shaft if the shear pin breaks.
I don't think it would wear well if turning for long but this would be very intermitant when the shear pin breaks.
Yes I know Im being cheap and should buy a propper bronze bushing but 1 1/4 aren't available locally.
Thanks
Greg
 

Kernbigo

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#2
ace hardware
 
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Hey Greg, I think it would work in a pinch, but like you mentioned, it wouldn't live long if spun for long. Grease would help for a short while though.
What kind of RPM are we looking at?

Paco
 

conibear

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#4
Greg what if you where to make your bushing from stainless steel or steel and pack it with Anti seize. I work as a service tech on car wash's and use a lot of that stuff and it never lets me down. Dave
 

francist

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#5
As a real life example, I installed 4 bushings from 1/2" copper water line exactly as you are describing in the worn out wheels on my lawnmower several years ago. They were all loose and wobbling all over the place (my dad and I bought this mower at Marshall-Wells in the 70's!). Anyway, the copper worked fine for about two seasons of grass cutting normal city yard, then they were worn as bad as the first ones. But they did last for the couple of years...

-frank
 

CluelessNewB

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#6
My Kubota has grease fittings and no bushings (steel on steel). I grease the heck out of it every season. I've broken way too many sheer pins (gravel, firewood, rocks...) It has never seized up. I use that heavy duty red grease.
 
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f350ca

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#7
Wish there was an Ace hardware, but not around Calabogie Ontario. lol
The auger will be running at about 250 rpm Paco. You'd notice within a few seconds if the shear pin broke and the auger was free wheeling. The grease idea has merrit, I could drill the bushing and put a fitting on it to keep it flooded.
Though about making the bushing / spacer between the 2 inch pipe and shaft out of stainless but the piece I have is only 2 inch, the pipe ID is slightly over. That would have been the easy / quick method. I'm not confident anti seize would stay in the joint when it gets wet.
The problem with shear pin joints like this, is they may not get sheared for a couple of years so you don't know if they've seized.
Thats sounds real promising Frank. If you got a couple of seasons out of them thats a LOT more turns than this should ever see.
Thanks
Greg
 

CluelessNewB

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#8
I should mention that I use anti-seize on the sheer pins themselves. The hardest part is usually aligning the holes to drive the broken pin out.
 
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f350ca

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#9
Was afraid steel on steel might not work Rich probably over thinking this. Im using the drive shaft from a tiller right now on my tractor mounted rear blower. It has a friction clutch in it, I jam it regulary with as you say rocks but mostly wood the dog has laid as land minds in the snow.
Is there a grease fitting to feed the joint?
Thanks
Greg
 

FOMOGO

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#10
I think the copper would be fine for your application. Nothing wrong with a little frugality. I replaced the shifter rail bushings (5spd manual) with 1/2" K-copper in our old 95 Honda suv. It was all that I had available and it worked fine for several yrs, and was still shifting great when we sold it. Mike
 

amuller

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#11
Well, most snowblowers run a steel auger flighting tube on a steel shaft. Some have grease fittings, some do not. When they rust together it's a real struggle to free them up. I think if you install grease fittings and keep the annular space pumped fill of grease there will be no problem.
 
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f350ca

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#12
If I went with the copper pipe bushing, would that small soft gap make the shear pins wipe over as they broke?

Greg
 
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#14
250 rpm and bed of grease via centered fitting would probably work ok. Like you mentioned, you'll know when the shear pin goes.

Paco
 

dennys502

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#15
Why not use a 1 1/4 Stainless shaft?
 
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f350ca

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#16
Just at the design stage right now Pierre so OD can be anything. Acklands was my go to store in Alberta, they had outlets everywhere. The closest one now is an hour and a half away. To be honest never think of checking there anymore. Princess Auto only have them to inch.
Its certainly not a high load or speed application Paco and if I add a grease fitting I think it would be fine.
Im thinking copper pipe to cut costs Denny, stainless would be nice but Im sure I'll complain at the cost of 1 1/4 cold roll.
Thanks

Greg
 

Superburban

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#17
Since there will be no rotation between the two shafts, unless the shear pin breaks (which hopefully is never). Then I do not see any issue with using copper. I agree, that one would want to stay away from steel on steel.
 

cathead

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#18
How about aluminum or possibly babbit material? I would use a grease zerk or similar no matter what material you choose to use.
 

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#19
Hi Greg,
I have a piece of brass round bar here that is 10.5" long x 2" o/d....would a chunk of that be of any use to you? Not as good as bronze I know, but should wear better than copper I would think.

Let me know & I can run it up to you if it'll work.

If 2" o/d is too small, Cardon's outside of Perth had some 2.5" o/d x 12" long brass when I was there last week.
 
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David S

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#20
Check out post @12 For effective shearing action I would think the flight tube and shaft should be a close fit. My old Airens has grease zerks on the flight tube and I think it recommends removing the pin periodically and making sure the auger can rotate.

David
 
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f350ca

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#21
Thanks for ALL the suggestions and input guys. Great site !
Thats a very generous offer Todd.
Had thought about trying to plate the inside of the bore with lead or silver solder cathead.
After more thought Im wondering if a bushing is a good idea. I mentioned it above, the thickness of the soft bushing isn't going to give a clean shearing action. Then wondered if the pin sheared at the ID of the steel bushing it could spin the copper bushing inside the bore and I'd never get the old one out.
What did you mean see the post @12 David. What sort of clearance should I use if I go steel on steel? Im thinking maybe 10 or 15 thou to be sure Im leaving enough room for a grease film. Too close and I'd never get the grease to flow out from the grease jerk.
May use the copper bushing on the other end that doesn't have a shear pin though.

Thanks

Greg
 

CluelessNewB

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#22
I have never measured the clearance on my Kubota but I would guesstimate about 15 thousandths. It's enough that I can feel a bit of wiggle when there is no shear pin installed. I make my own shear pins using grade 5 bolts (same grade as the original Kubota pins). I made up a batch as a production run a few years ago when I got sick of paying $3 a piece. I typically go through 3 or 4 a season. I still have a few years worth.
 

David S

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#23
Greg not sure what my clearance is. I would go with what Rich is suggesting. I purchased some shear pins for my machine along time ago and they have grooves around the circumference where I assume they should shear. The idea is to have a clean shear so that you can get the center section out.

David
 

KBeitz

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#24
In your case I would line the inside of the pipe with J-B-weld and then grease the shaft
and slide it in. After 24 hours rotate the shaft.... I've made acme nuts this way.
 

Tozguy

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#25
f350, believe that you are on the right track. I would go with steel inserts everywhere to get .010'' of clearance. Grease will do the rest.
Would using a big felt washer at each end to 'seal' water out and keep grease in be effective?
 
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