Cunliffe Horizontal Milling Machine

Thanks Ulma,

I need all the help I can get... :) I would really appreciate you going through the process with me. I don't think that the mill had been running on 240v before now. In fact, it was already equipped with a 4 prong plug at the end of the extension cord and worked just fine on the low speed (4hp) setting.

Cheers... :)

Brian
 
Thanks Ulma,

I need all the help I can get... :) I would really appreciate you going through the process with me. I don't think that the mill had been running on 240v before now. In fact, it was already equipped with a 4 prong plug at the end of the extension cord and worked just fine on the low speed (4hp) setting.

Cheers... :)

Brian

Brian,

Nice universal mill! Can you explain your Low Speed and High Speed terminology? Low speed 4-hp, high speed 8-hp. Do you have two separate motors? If not, how is the difference in hp being done?

I'd love to help with the electrics; but sorry to say I can connect the color coded wires but that's about it.
 
Hello Reeltor,

The main motor on the mill is a 2-speed motor and the speeds are selected by a switch on the panel...

The switch on the far right is the speed selector...

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I don't pretend to know how it all works.

Brian

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Hello Reeltor,

The main motor on the mill is a 2-speed motor and the speeds are selected by a switch on the panel...

The switch on the far right is the speed selector...

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I don't pretend to know how it all works.

Brian

Brian, I see the sticker for 440V on the mill. Have the electrics been changed over for 220/240V? Perhaps someone with experience can ask the right question and point you to how to check?

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at a guess your motor might be still wired up for 440 volts on the 2nd speed....
it didn't like being started like that and the weakest fuse blew as a result.

i would start by asking how many wires are coming out of the motor?
we will have to determine what type of motor we are dealing with.
by the number of leads we can make further deductions.
please inform me if there are numbers on the wires and how they are connected or
a picture of the wires exiting the motor would be helpful as well as pictures of the contactor lay out.

if you have the wiring diagram that would make things easier as well.
 
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Hello Mike,

I am away from home this evening, but I will have a closer look at the mill motor tomorrow night. It appears that both the main mill motor and the rapid traverse motors had been re-wired at some point and the motor tags on both motors have the 440v areas punched by hand to obliterate the numbers. Also, both motors have been painted a light grey colour, quite different than the rest of the machine.

The main motor is a bear to get at, but once I have the back panel off, it may be easier to get at the wiring than I remember. I could only read the motor tag with a flashlight and a mirror.

Unfortunately, there isn't any electrical schematics, either on the mill nor in my manual.

Here's a few pics of inside the panel... from bottom left to right...

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Middle left to right...

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Top... left to right...

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Tag on panel...

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What are these adjustment levers for ? ...

Just above the fuses...

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And just above the main power input...

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I hope that the pics help....

Here's one of the entire panel...

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Oh.... and I realize that I will have to address the oil infiltration... :yikes:
Brian :)

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The Levers on the Overload relays set the overload trip point.
once the amperage goes through the OL relay a series of bi-metal contacts are made.
when the amperage is too great, the bi-metal contacts separate due to heat distortion and contact is electrically broken at that point.
as the OL contact cools, they will go back to their original positions and electrical contact is once again restored.
those levers just make the OL adjustable for use for different amperage requirements.

the 2 wires that are immersed in oil with wire nuts on them are really making me nervous for you.:bitingnails:

i would address that issue before i attempted hooking up the electricity again.
those wires coming in are large in comparison to the wires they are joined to and may be causing electrical flow issues due to their reduced size, larger wire would not hurt.
oil can be conductive and can cause trouble.

it won't be necessary to do anything with the traversing motor as far as testing at this point.

i'm trying to wrap my head around how they are getting the second speed, for the moment i'm assuming that one contactor is for the main motor, the other contactor is for the traversing motor.

not to try to confuse you but there is machinery that will start in the WYE configuration and RUN in the Delta configuration after the motor is switched to do so, this may be so in your case and would explain the broken fuse. the motor trying to start in the delta configuration was beyond fuse rating

You would start the motor in low speed [WYE 4hp],
then switch to high speed while the motor was powered up,with the High Speed switch on the machine to utilize the Delta configuration [8hp].
there will be a short lag until the windings are re-energized after switching to high speed.
then the motor would get up to full speed again and ready for work.
European motors are sometimes utilized in this method.
kinda like this diagram

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7tUTMWzOMYnVqvYtDbPu0IOiBQcOExtK9DWHbcg54YwNnmfTV.jpg or like this sd1_29519F62-96E1-BDB6-BD5EB4BDE1D41420.jpg

i'm not saying that is 100% the case, but it is worthy of entertainment as a possibility.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7tUTMWzOMYnVqvYtDbPu0IOiBQcOExtK9DWHbcg54YwNnmfTV.jpg

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images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7tUTMWzOMYnVqvYtDbPu0IOiBQcOExtK9DWHbcg54YwNnmfTV.jpg

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Good morning Mike,

I certainly will address the oil issue. Is there a good electrical cleaner on the market that I could safely spray onto all of the contacts to de-contaminate any oil residue?

I never thought to switch the motor speed while already powered up and running in the low speed setting. I am thinking the same about the contactors being used seperately. Once I get the panel cleaned up and new fuses, I might try to start the mill with the panel open to see what goes on with the contactors.

But, first, I will investigate the motor wiring for you.

Thanks for your help... :)

Brian
 
Good Morning to you, Brian

there are several contact cleaners offered here in the US. I like the CRC electrical contact cleaner. it is safe to spray.
other brands of electrical contact cleaners are available and i'm sure would be effective.
Brake Kleen will work in a pinch, but i would try not to overspray too heavily on plastics.
a side effect of brake clean is a hazy residue left on parts. if you use it on a electrical surface that will be reassembled, it's best to use a wire brush on the contact surface before reassembly

i sometimes use mineral spirits on a rag to breakdown the gunk, then go over it with a clean rag until it's gone.
Lacquer thinner or MEK is also effective utilized in the same manner,
i would not recommend to spray these on your components.
there may be unknown consequences such as softening of plastics and pooling of fluids that may not evaporate as quickly in unseen areas.
it could cause a fire hazard should there be an unseen pool of cleaner

a word of caution,
lacquer thinner can remove some types of paint, and all 3 fluids are very flammable.
make sure the control box has aired out for a couple hours before you plug it in after cleaning as a precaution.
lacquer thinner and MEK will evaporate quickly, but Mineral spirits will hang around a little longer.


LMK your findings as far as which contactor pulls in for which control, that will be a great help
i hope the info helps out.
mike:))
 
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Hello Mike,

I spent a couple of hours on the electrical panel this evening. I looked at the rapid traverse motor tag and it has been "punched" in the voltage area of the tag with 220v remaining. The main motor is difficult to get at, but with a mirror, I could see that it's tag had also been altered. There was the scratched scrawl of 208v on top. I would have to remove the motor entirely in order to ascertain it's configuration, etc. , which I will do if neccesary. This will mean having to move the mill forward a few feet and then removing the motor, so it will take some time to do so.

I then decided to clean up the "oil spill" in the panel and try to see where it came from in the first place. I also wanted to redo the incoming 3 phase wires with the marrets. First, I removed the face of the incoming power bar and removed the three marreted leads from that. Then I removed the marrets, ground and removed the main cable from the panel. What a mess it was in. The oil had reduced the rubber to an almost gelatin state as well as hardened some of the rubber to plastic.

There was a few bare spots as well...

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I'm beginning to wonder if this was the source of overload... I then removed the bolts holding the lower assembly to the case in order to get at the oil a little easier.

The incoming wire was so oil soaked that I had to cut a full 10" of it off completely, before I found dry wire. It was also obvious to me that there was no need to have the marrets and I decided to install crimped loops to the main wires and install them directly to L1, L2 & L3 as well as the ground. In addition, I cleaned up all of the ground contacts and re-installed the ground post on the inside of the cabinet. The copper parts were "outside" of the panel before.

I put things back together for now, until I purchase some electrical cleaner. When I get the cleaner, I will remove all banks of components as assemblies so that I can get at everything and seal the cap screws which secure the panel to the mill. I believe that the oil in the panel was due a failed cam panel gasket (just above the electrical panel). I have since replaced this gasket and it seems to be holding oil just fine.

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An aside and potential safety warning to other unlucky dopes like me... ;)

While working on the panel, I needed a particular small socket from my tool cabinet. This cabinet is in a new location and the concrete has it leaning slightly forward and I've been meaning to shim it up. The top drawers are opening on their own at times, unless I have the top lid closed.

The socket I needed was in the large bottom drawer. As I pulled the heavily loaded bottom drawer out, the top drawers all opened up at the same time, which resulted in the whole two tier cabinet to fall over on top of me as I was squatted down. There must be at least 400 lbs. of tools in the cabinet. A sheet of plywood kept the cabinet from pinning me and I was able to wrestle the top cabinet off of me and pull it out. Then began the task of emptying drawer by drawer so that I could eventually right the cabinet.

I don't think that I damaged anything, including myself, but I sure have some sorting out to do... :yikes:

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Cheers... :)

Brian

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