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D-bit Tool Cutter Grinder R8 to 5C work head conversion
- Thread starter petertha
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
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- 391
accidental double post.
- Joined
- May 4, 2019
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I have a Deckel style grinder from Harbor Freght. It uses R8 collets. For doing a 4 facet grind on drills I use my R8 x ER32 adapter. I have a workhead for my T&C grinder that takes 5Cs. I use that for larger drills.
Thanks @Illinoyance. If its convenient for you one day, I'd like to see a picture of your setup with adapter.
I'm not making much headway with Asian suppliers procuring a 5C head assembly to retrofit my R8. Not for lack of trying. I seriously wonder if some of these (re)sellers even understand what these machines do or what a collet is. I'll keep plugging away in the meantime.
I'm not making much headway with Asian suppliers procuring a 5C head assembly to retrofit my R8. Not for lack of trying. I seriously wonder if some of these (re)sellers even understand what these machines do or what a collet is. I'll keep plugging away in the meantime.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2017
- Messages
- 391
"understand what these machines do" is not a requirement to sell things we've come to know as lathe shaped object for example. How much productive time has been lost to wrangling and written off as "kept plugging away"?
Tis but two of myriad PREDICTED issues brought down on us collectively; from the largest to smallest entities, the communications, customer satisfaction, and lack of poor means of recourse, via unchecked importation. Those predictions were from those with direct concerns, manufacturing industry itself. Sure, they were only experts that testified, outnumbered by callus lobbyists. The article ran IIRC in "Machine Tool Bluebook" mid 80's, along with easily thirty other probable, distinct issues. Every one occurred and continues; some (few) companies got the hint and resolved them.
When I see a product, parading under a nonsensical word, their made-up company 'name', that's my signal to exit a deal.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2018
- Messages
- 255
Just summarizing and providing some answers:
I have an Alexander 2CGD (D for inferial measurements) which uses E355/U2 collets. It is of superb quality, on par with Deckel.
-Deckel produced E355 collets (known as U2 now) in .5mm increments, possibly even less for their lines of pantographs. These collets, like 5C/3C, have a very limited clamping range. I think Schaublin might also have made same/similar collets.
- You should consider what you are trying to accomplish. If regrinding end mills, there are only 3 or 4 shank sizes to consider. If grinding drills then ER adapter is the solution. For end mills, get the appropriate R8 collets, and grind the slot deeper and get on with using the machine as is. For drills, get an R8-ER16/ER20 adapter with a set of collets.
- For grinding wierd stuff, like lathe tools, inserts etc. I built an add on from an article in Model Engineers Workshop title "Taming the 'Universal' Tool & Cutter Grinder. That same add-on is used for grinding my shop-made gear cutters and cutters for my Atlas MF.
- The same article has a dedicated 4 facet jig that mounts on the same add-on.
- For 4 facet drill grinding I designed and made a 'microscope' to view the grind progress without removing the drill from grinder.
- I made 10 or so hubs to mount wheels on, including a few that extend the wheel much farther out from the spindle. This lets me grind on the reverse side of a wheel (which is mount reversed on a hub). Hubs for the oldeer Deckel and Alexander are NLA.
Shipping is expensive for heavy objects, from China as should reasonably be expected. Shipping from US to Canada is generally extorionist level. Given that most of that product is from China in the first place I order direct from China. Quality will be similar at lower total cost to me. As an example, a PCB from Mesa was US$48 to ship to me, slowly. UPS/Fedex are even worse.
I have an Alexander 2CGD (D for inferial measurements) which uses E355/U2 collets. It is of superb quality, on par with Deckel.
-Deckel produced E355 collets (known as U2 now) in .5mm increments, possibly even less for their lines of pantographs. These collets, like 5C/3C, have a very limited clamping range. I think Schaublin might also have made same/similar collets.
- You should consider what you are trying to accomplish. If regrinding end mills, there are only 3 or 4 shank sizes to consider. If grinding drills then ER adapter is the solution. For end mills, get the appropriate R8 collets, and grind the slot deeper and get on with using the machine as is. For drills, get an R8-ER16/ER20 adapter with a set of collets.
- For grinding wierd stuff, like lathe tools, inserts etc. I built an add on from an article in Model Engineers Workshop title "Taming the 'Universal' Tool & Cutter Grinder. That same add-on is used for grinding my shop-made gear cutters and cutters for my Atlas MF.
- The same article has a dedicated 4 facet jig that mounts on the same add-on.
- For 4 facet drill grinding I designed and made a 'microscope' to view the grind progress without removing the drill from grinder.
- I made 10 or so hubs to mount wheels on, including a few that extend the wheel much farther out from the spindle. This lets me grind on the reverse side of a wheel (which is mount reversed on a hub). Hubs for the oldeer Deckel and Alexander are NLA.
Shipping is expensive for heavy objects, from China as should reasonably be expected. Shipping from US to Canada is generally extorionist level. Given that most of that product is from China in the first place I order direct from China. Quality will be similar at lower total cost to me. As an example, a PCB from Mesa was US$48 to ship to me, slowly. UPS/Fedex are even worse.
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- Joined
- May 4, 2019
- Messages
- 792
Petertha;
Here is the type of collet chuck I use on my grinder:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3539606441...CVIcGeQHbaL5AAAMKIvaGaJ8UA06|tkp:BFBMkP7Arfhf
Here is the type of collet chuck I use on my grinder:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/3539606441...CVIcGeQHbaL5AAAMKIvaGaJ8UA06|tkp:BFBMkP7Arfhf
- Joined
- May 4, 2019
- Messages
- 792
Thanks, I can get the R8-ER toolholder no problem. I was more referring to stick-out of grinding something like a drill & maybe the ER nut getting in the way. But maybe a good portion of the arbor is hollow to accommodate longer items, more like a regular R8 collet?
I actually have an R8-ER20 holder for the mill for gripping odd (metric) end mills & such. The only reason I didn't stick it directly into the TCG & test motion clearance is that the set screw inside the TCG holder is proud to the extent its dragging on the R8-ER toolholder slot. No easy way I can see to adjust without disassembly. I actually had to do the same thing on my 935 mill, but it was easy, just remove the nose cap. My R8 collets are deeper slot & slide in/out of TCG no problem.
I actually have an R8-ER20 holder for the mill for gripping odd (metric) end mills & such. The only reason I didn't stick it directly into the TCG & test motion clearance is that the set screw inside the TCG holder is proud to the extent its dragging on the R8-ER toolholder slot. No easy way I can see to adjust without disassembly. I actually had to do the same thing on my 935 mill, but it was easy, just remove the nose cap. My R8 collets are deeper slot & slide in/out of TCG no problem.