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Dangers of machining carbon-fiber?

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NortonDommi

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#31
Yep, Cystic Fibrosis is a helluva horrible way to die.
 

pontiac428

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#32
Sorry, my eyes kinda popped out when I read this thread. Attached are two useful documents on the subject.

The toxicity of fibers and nanomaterials is not chemical, but mechanical. It's the structure, the size, the shape, and the inspirability- all physical parameters, that make these dangerous. It has nothing to do with metabolic toxicity like most poisons. Where it goes and how your tissues react are the key here.
 

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Bob Korves

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#33
I come from the world of high performance sailplanes, which are now structurally made almost entirely from carbon fiber and para-aramid fiber (Kevlar). The people who manufacture and repair them are quite careful to wear full protection clothing and high efficiency breathing apparatus. This is not to keep the safety Nazis happy, it is to stay alive and healthy.
 

rwm

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#34
Clean up with wet wiping and vacuuming.
Your points are well taken and I do not challenge their veracity or scholarly merit, but are you really saying we should bring a known toxin such as Dihydrogen monoxide into this? (...Credit to Wreck)
Robert
 

pontiac428

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#35
...should we bring a known toxin such as Dihydrogen monoxide into this?
Robert
Definitely. I recommend rubbing it onto your bare hands afterwards, too!

Back on course, it's interesting to note that aramid fibers are thick enough to not be inhalable into sensitive regions of the lung. Got to know aramid fiber while investigating the health impact of performing demil of interceptor body armor plates using a 24" band saw. After airborne particle sampling, it turned out to be a safe operation.

Also, glass fiber is not vwry inhalable (yes, still wear a particle mask for machining or sanding). Those fibers are around 30 microns thick. Glass fiber is vitreous, meaning the silica has no structure. But if your glass fiber has been heat cycled, like high heat insulation, crystalline structure forms (as with heat treating steel). Crystalline silica will cause silicosis over the long haul.



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BROCKWOOD

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#36
It is not oxygen we breath to live. Let me explain. It is our inherent carbon waste that must be evacuated from our lungs. So, yes, on land oxygen is the best binder. Deep sea divers use something entirely different from oxygen to breath. As for carbon fibre, the resins that bind it are not so cool & should be treated accordingly.
 

vtcnc

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#37
According to the various MSD sheets, toxicity of carbon fiber, either inhaled or orally ingested, is not known. Carbon by itself is rather inert. Inhaling large quantities over an extended period of time, as when mining coal, will cause black lung disease. As far as oral ingestion, carbon in the form of activated charcoal is uses extensively for removal of impurities from drinking water. I know that I have ingested my share in eating grilled brats, hamburgers, and steaks. I have also inhaled quite a bit of carbon in the form of soot from diesel engines and from smoldering campfire.

I would be more concerned with the epoxy binders use in the carbon fiber material.
Epoxy is the big concern. And any fiberglass plies used in the layup as filler material.


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rwm

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#38
Its fascinating to me how the size and shape of the particles becomes more important than the chemical properties.
Apparently even the different crystalline shapes of asbestos have differing "toxicity."
R
 

RJSakowski

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#39
Its fascinating to me how the size and shape of the particles becomes more important than the chemical properties.
Apparently even the different crystalline shapes of asbestos have differing "toxicity."
R
Exactly. Which makes me wonder how long it will be before they start talking about the glass fibers used in fiberglass insulation.
 

rwm

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#40
I think fiberglass has been pretty well studied. Asbestos was thought to be safe for years but even after they knew there were problems they tried to ignore it. I am told that in Manville New Jersey asbestos was kept in huge piles and when the wind blew it blew through the whole town!
R
 

Keith Foor

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#41
Older thread but I figure it's important.
I can't speak effectively as to the health concerns of carbon fiber.
But I can tell you that the stuff IS conductive. And it will get everywhere.

I had a bad experience with this a number of years ago working for a customer that manufactured resin impregnated fibrous cloth.
They ran a good bit of carbon fiber and it would shed going through the machine before getting coated with resin. The fibers got on everything, including electrical equipment. I was working in a control box and had closed the door, I forgot to check something so I pulled the door open again quickly and the inrush of air blew a bunch of fibers across the main power feed (480) of the box, and boom. Luckily I didn't damage the 120K dollars in DC motor drives, but it sure scared the crap out of a bunch of people, including me.

Point is try to mitigate swarf from any conductive fiber as much as possible. We all know how metal dust will get a lot of places we don't want it. This stuff tends to be worse because it will float in the air.
 

magicniner

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#42
It is not oxygen we breath to live. Let me explain. It is our inherent carbon waste that must be evacuated from our lungs. So, yes, on land oxygen is the best binder. Deep sea divers use something entirely different from oxygen to breath. As for carbon fibre, the resins that bind it are not so cool & should be treated accordingly.
The gas mixes for deep sea divers replace the Nitrogen with other gasses less soluble in the body and less toxic than Nitrogen at high pressures, Oxygen is an essential component of any breathing gas, the Oxygen is still there in concentrations high enough to oxygenate the blood adequately and is not replaced by other gasses.

The threat from Nano Fibres is, as has been correctly stated above, from their physical interaction with living cells.
 

BROCKWOOD

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#43
Well written magicniner! Me thinks the journeyman that explained my understanding didn't make such a good grade in the class?
 

BaronJ

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#44
Hi Guys,

It horrifies me the number of times that references to videos are made that show bad and often dangerous practice are made as if they are the most perfect and correct way of doing something.
 

C-Bag

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#45
Hi Guys,

It horrifies me the number of times that references to videos are made that show bad and often dangerous practice are made as if they are the most perfect and correct way of doing something.
They just reflect the stupid shop practices I used to see every day. Sadly. I remember watching a lead man cutting the guards off a bench grinder along with another mech. He mumbled "ignorant and proud of it" and we went back to work.
 
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