Dial indicator advice

:grin big: :anon:

One of the last bastions of acceptable tribal superstition are brand names. We've gone through plenty of this over the years. Cars, guns, and certainly tools. In the 70s, as a new Tool and Die maker, Starrett ruled the roost. Anything less was .... less. Lufkin was a cheap pretender and when Mititoyo and Fowler were mentioned, old geezer Tool and Die men would spit on the floor.

But no one had data. No one had a reason other than brand loyalty. Eventually, we even set up comparisons on the granite tables and jo-blocks and everything. No difference. The huffing and puffing then turned to "yeah? well, what's it gonna be in 10 or 20 years? huh?"
To which, I, being a young smartass, would say, "I'll be fired by then if I don't get this job out."

Fowler uses the same rack-and-pinion design that absolutely everyone else does from Korea to Connecticut. Teeth-per-revolution causes the needle to move. No other reason. A micrometer is TPI. Nothing more or less.

So get whatcha want. Yes, i have some Fowler. I also have some Starrett and Federal -- probably older than most folk on this list. These days, I buy what looks good with no regard to brand.

Every tool out there is closer precision, today, than most have ability to make. If that junk from Cheapistan says 1.0000" on a gage block, you got it. You're there. Can the guy next to you with the $150 Starrett even grind a block that close? That's what REALLY matters.
 
I bought this Fowler dial indicator off of Amazon. First, seeing it in person, the numbers on the dial are small. Even in the pic below they don't look small. My eyes are not the greatest but I don't need glasses.

I'm right there with you. I don't need glasses, but not perfect in close. I've come to like using cheap "reader" glasses as genera purpose eye cover when I'm doing anything where that's appropriate. Don't get me wrong, when chips of anything are flying, "real" ones are still required, but the "general principal, glasses on" stuff... Next time you're at Walmart (or any department store), try looking at an ingredients label, or safety warning, or any small text on anything in your cart, at a comfortable distance... If you can "fix" something with that..... It's one of the cheapest shop tools you'll ever find. And if it's not the problem, it won't cost but two minutes to know that too.

And I do agree, it almost always looks like bigger, better, bolder graduations when you're looking at a picture, lit up on a computer screen. On that particular one, I "think" I like that outer dial. The reverse numbers look very convenient. None of mine have that. While it's in no way necessary, I think I might enjoy that feature.

Second, the revolution dial is not the same. The Amazon picture shows it as being one revolution per inch. The one I got is two revs per inch. The indicator itself looks the same as others, just rebranded with different names. And in the comments of a few of them they mention the same thing about the rev dial and not being the same as pictured.

I do have one of those. You've got to remember and pay attention to it, but after a few uses, it sorts it's self out and becomes more intuitive. I still like a one inch sub dial better, but either one works after you remember to remember. It's a large enough difference that if you forget, you'll figure it out before the tool hits the work.

Being new to this, and I being too picky? This Fowler one for $38 is in my price range. I'm not springing for something more expensive for starting out. After looking at others on Amazon, don't think I'm going to find one that fits my idea of what it should be. Thinking of returning it but wanted to ask for advice here first. I could try to go outside of Amazon to find what I want. Thoughts? And thank you from a newbie.

Too picky? That becomes pretty subjective when you're looking at entry level "metrology" stuff. And I'm right there with you. I can't have all good name top shelf stuff, so I'm right there swimming in the toilet with you, trying not to fall into the whirlpool..... My personal opinion on it is this- You're looking for a "compromise" price point tool, so there will be compromise. Not "cheap", but not "expensive". My way to go about deciding what to do is to just set up some arbitrary thing to measure, and use the thing for a few minutes. Does it operate smoothly, and repeat exactly? Well, the doors to owning an indicator open at about 20 bucks. If yours is smooth and consistent, then your price point is WAY more than justified by that feature alone. I'd keep it. I do own a couple of Harbor Freight dial indicators, and while they do have the full one inch sub dial, which I really like, they're not smooth, and don't "necessarily" repeat well. Although sometimes they do. Something's "sticky" if the tip is not 100 percent dead nutz exactly 90 degrees to the point of contact. One is worse than the other. And both will "jump" more than I'd expect when sweeping left to right, and then right to left. I'd expect "some", but one of these is in the 0.007 inch range. The other might be in the 0.003 range. To SOME degree, this is expected, and will happen, and it's kind of like backlash in a lathe dial. You know it's there, you only count graduations in one direction, and at that point it's pretty irrelevent. But at that large of a degree, it makes it hard to trust. If you find that this indicator works as I describe mine, at half the price.... I'd sent it back and spend half the money for the same thing. Or try a different brand in the same price point you're at. You can expect WAY better than I describe at your "cheap but not the cheapest" price point range.

Honestly, if you think that one operates smooth, repeatable, and generally is an OK measuring tool.... Despite the fact that like you, I'm not crazy about the dial, I might order one just so I can relegate my worst Harbor Freight one to the rod straightening contraption I've got on the shop press. Which of course is a little bit science, and a little bit black magic, so the crappy indicator would be more than fine there, and probably live a long, happy life that way.
 
Keep it. As you use it you'll get a better idea of what you do and don't want. A second indicator has it uses. Most of us I imagine own two and three more.
Then you may find yourself needing a 0-2" indicator. You'll be better equipped by then as to what you want and don't want.
 
The rotation counter might take a little getting used to but the important thing is hw accurate the DI is. If it's consistent sweeping onto a 123 block from opposite directions I would call it a keeper.
 
I returned the Fowler. My thought is I want something that I'm happy about. I'll keep looking for a mid-cost one that I'll be content with.

In the meantime, received my Noga arm. And I checked out the site that GT-6 Racer suggested. Found a refurb Starrett for a respectable price. It arrived today. Realized the tip does not come off, at least at first inspection. Now I'll be starting my collection of DI's.


IMG_0864.jpeg

 
You'll end up with many dial indicators, just as a matter of convenience.

Fowler isn't bad, it's just uneven. My Fowler mics are 20-odd years old and they are just fine--tenth-reading with ratchet thimbles that work just as they should. They appear to be Japanese, and I think predate Chinese sourcing for Fowler. I bought them new and they weren't that cheap back in the day. (They go up to 4"--my larger mics are old Lufkins from there up to 9".)

It depends on where I'm going to use the dial indicator. I love a 2"-travel indicator mounted on the bed of my lathe that I use for turning to a shoulder. The one I use (branded SPI but made by who knows?) has a central "hour" hand for reading whole tenths of inches. That makes it easy to see the motion of the carriage as it winds up to my shoulder target. The small double-wrap subdial on the Fowler first pictured by the OP wouldn't be as useful in that situation. But I also have no interest in putting an expensive dial indicator in that spot--the plastic crystal of the SPI already has little marks on it from hot chips. I save my best indicators for inspection on the surface plate, or for setup.

Rick "more is better" Denney
 
I returned the Fowler. My thought is I want something that I'm happy about. I'll keep looking for a mid-cost one that I'll be content with.

In the meantime, received my Noga arm. And I checked out the site that GT-6 Racer suggested. Found a refurb Starrett for a respectable price. It arrived today. Realized the tip does not come off, at least at first inspection. Now I'll be starting my collection of DI's.


View attachment 440576

Tip does unscrew, you just need to hold the shaft to keep from damaging the mechanism:

Starrett 25-441J Indicator Annotated.jpeg

There is also a small spring inside the shaft. [Edit: I looked at the diagram on my desktop - the spring is inside the case; was wondering what it was for, and believe it is to cushion the return travel of the shaft. I also annotated the exploded parts to better show the tip; there is a spare one used as a stop on the top of the shaft] The Assembly/Exploded diagram & parts list will help (you may need to create a Starrett account to view the page).
 
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I returned the Fowler. My thought is I want something that I'm happy about. I'll keep looking for a mid-cost one that I'll be content with.

In the meantime, received my Noga arm. And I checked out the site that GT-6 Racer suggested. Found a refurb Starrett for a respectable price. It arrived today. Realized the tip does not come off, at least at first inspection. Now I'll be starting my collection of DI's.


View attachment 440576

Glad they could help you !
 
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