Dial making and lathes

[Joseph Khur]

First time posting on here. I'm looking to get into watch making. To start off with I'm just interested in making dials and maybe customising pre made cases. I would also like to make cases and possibly the movements in the future.

I have no experience with machining, but I have dabbled with wood work in the past and like tinkering with various things.

I'm looking to purchase my first lathe and would like to the opinions of people with experience.
After researching ive found that it sounds like a sherline lathe would be a good purchase. But I dont know which one would be the best for what I want to do and all the attachments I would need. Could you please give some recommendations? Or is there a better brand of lathe out there? I don't want to cheap out and limit myself with equipment, but I also don't want to break the bank.

I'm aware of rose engine lathes, but I can't really afford one.

Thanks in advance for any helpful responses.

 

[aliva]

I'm not familiar with watch making making tools, but you may want to check out some watch making forums, there may be valuable information there.

 

[Bi11Hudson]

A Sherline would be your best all around bet. I do model building, but nothing that delicate. I also have larger machines. For the type of work you are investigating, the Sherline will do the work. Their limit is size, you won't do much larger work. There is a saying "you can do small work on a large machine but you cannot do large work on a small machine". There is, as always, a caveat that for very small work, a big machine will have parts get in the way on occasion. More serious metal workers will have a small machine and a larger machine. I have a 12" machine for what to me is big work. And a 9" machine for stuff that is smaller. I do not have a Sherline, though at one time I had a UniMat DB-200. But at the time, I was learning, and had access to serious lathes, and the UniMat did have a number of limitations.

While I recommend highly the Sherline, I don't have access to one and have never used one. But I am in contact with a number of people that do. Just how much is involved in converting from a lathe to a mill is unknown to me. I would suggest to start looking toward the high end machines and work down. You will want the machine that is capable of being expanded in function, not necessarily that has all the bells and whistles.

You, by your own estimate, are quite green. As time goes by, it will be necessary to "expand" your machine. For that, I cannot help, I don't have the knowledge of your hobby. There are a few things I have discovered while doing small work that may be of assistance though. Such as a Dremel tool. They are nice to have and do what they do quite well. But some of the accessory packages are simply not worth the time, nor cost. Such as the Dremel drill press. . . Another concept to keep in mind is time to make any conversion. It may be more advantageous to have a separate lathe, mill, and drill press. Only you can make that call. The only thing I can offer of any use is that there are a number of clock-work builders on this site. Give things some time and some of them will chime in.

.

 

[mikey]

Welcome to HM, Joe!

I am not a watch or clock maker so will be of little help there. However, I am a Sherline owner. I know a lot of clock makers and watch guys do use Sherline tools so they are for sure capable but there are other brands of lathes specifically made for this field that may work better for you. The key issue will be locating them and then dealing with the cost. Once upon a time, I fantasized about buying a genuine Boley lathe but the cost for it and the accessories convinced me that it wasn't going to happen and I went with the Sherline.

I can tell you that the Sherline is a fine machine for what it costs. They are capable of serious small work and are precise enough for most jobs that I've had to do on them. The cost for the lathe itself is not too bad and Sherline has the largest inventory of accessories of any tool maker in the world, and every accessory they have will fit every Sherline lathe ever made. They even make a graver tool rest based on WR Smith's design, although you can certainly make one yourself if you also own a Sherline mill.

As to which one to get, much depends on what you intend to do with it. If you only need to ever do tiny work then a short bed lathe will work; the long bed is more versatile for the longer work pieces you may not foresee making, though. They make these lathes in both Metric and Imperial versions and this pertains to the leadscrew and hand wheel markings; pick your poison.

As Bill said, wait awhile and hopefully the watch guys will be along to help.

 

[Jim F]

A Sherline would be your best all around bet. I do model building, but nothing that delicate. I also have larger machines. For the type of work you are investigating, the Sherline will do the work. Their limit is size, you won't do much larger work. There is a saying "you can do small work on a large machine but you cannot do large work on a small machine". There is, as always, a caveat that for very small work, a big machine will have parts get in the way on occasion. More serious metal workers will have a small machine and a larger machine. I have a 12" machine for what to me is big work. And a 9" machine for stuff that is smaller. I do not have a Sherline, though at one time I had a UniMat DB-200. But at the time, I was learning, and had access to serious lathes, and the UniMat did have a number of limitations.

While I recommend highly the Sherline, I don't have access to one and have never used one. But I am in contact with a number of people that do. Just how much is involved in converting from a lathe to a mill is unknown to me. I would suggest to start looking toward the high end machines and work down. You will want the machine that is capable of being expanded in function, not necessarily that has all the bells and whistles.

You, by your own estimate, are quite green. As time goes by, it will be necessary to "expand" your machine. For that, I cannot help, I don't have the knowledge of your hobby. There are a few things I have discovered while doing small work that may be of assistance though. Such as a Dremel tool. They are nice to have and do what they do quite well. But some of the accessory packages are simply not worth the time, nor cost. Such as the Dremel drill press. . . Another concept to keep in mind is time to make any conversion. It may be more advantageous to have a separate lathe, mill, and drill press. Only you can make that call. The only thing I can offer of any use is that there are a number of clock-work builders on this site. Give things some time and some of them will chime in.

.

Joe Pie did a video of turning a nail for his cannon, and single point threading 2-56 on his 13" Clausing......

 

[Dabbler]

Another avenue is to look for a used watchmaker's lathe. They have features not found on conventional metalworking lathes, but you can add them to a sherline or similar lathe as you have time. My friend has a 'collection' of watchmakers lathes, about 9 of them, and each is tooled differently.

It goes back to what you know you will be doing in the immediate future, what you expect to do, and what you dream of doing. T get started buy something economical that will carry you past the first two categories, and then you'll be ready to specify and buy the lathe that will take you to the third category.

I agree that a sherline is a good start. Some of the offshore 7X12 lathes are fine to start with and can get you there cheaply. Frankly I'd look for an old smaller 6 or 8" lathe (I'm not familiar with the UK market) but whatever popular lathe brand that's available might do you well, and make it possibe to trade across to what you really need when you gain more experience.

 

[Aaron_W]

Since you are in England you will have a different pool of used lathes available to you, than we have in the US.

The US made Sherline and Taig lathes may be harder to support / cost more over there, but it does look like there are importers for them. I think the Taig lathe is sold under the Peatol brand name in the UK.

Myford is a small English lathe that seems to be popular "over there". Comparable to the smaller Southbend, Logan and Atlas lathes in the US.

Enco is an Austrian company, that made a variety of small lathes. There were a couple variations of Unimat, and a step up from there was the Compact 5 which has a good reputation, but is now rather expensive in the US when you can even find one. I suspect they might be easier to find used in the UK and Europe, than in the US. There is also a German company Proxxon which makes a small lathe, but I know very little about it.

I have had a Sherline for several years now and am very happy with it. I recently added a Taig lathe mostly to satisfy my curiosity. The Taig has some clever features, like a power feed which Sherline does not offer (although one can be made).
On the whole though the Sherline lathe is more refined, and offers a ton more options. Since both use a 3/4"-16 spindle many of the Sherline accessories can be used with a Taig lathe. I can see where the Taig lathe might offer advantages in a few areas, particularly at the larger end of the work envelope, but for making small precise parts I think all of the advantage is with Sherline.

You most likely have the same options for Chinese lathes as we do, although under different names. These can be made into nice small lathes, but I don't know how suitable they are for watch making.

You mention of dials has me thinking you may also want to look into an engraving machine and / or a small mill depending on what kind of work you expect to do with a dial. There are a ton of books on watch making and several youtube channels I've found.

There is a member here Forty Niner who does some watch and clock making with a Sherline lathe.

 

[dewbane]

Joe Pie did a video of turning a nail for his cannon, and single point threading 2-56 on his 13" Clausing......

That thing was ridiculous!

 

[chips&more]

Hi Joe and welcome, If you have never done any of what you said, you are looking at a lifetime of learning. And not everyone has the finesse to achieve good results. You can have the best equipment in front of you but if you do not have the finesse/talent to complete the task it will be for not. What do you mean when you say dial making? What do you mean when you say case work? Both really do not need a lathe, maybe case making a little. Making a “watch” movement is a different world that requires the highest skill level, I cannot emphasize that enough! Your tooling MUST equal that challenge!!! Making tiny “WATCH” parts not clock parts is a micro machining challenge. Not every brand of small lathe can fit the bill, even with a skilled master operator. Good luck on your endeavor…Dave

 

[silence dogood]

You are in country where there have been some fine watchmakers lathes made. You may be able to find a used one. If you do, make sure that it has tooling especially the the collets. Also check out the site "Clickspring". Chris does amazing work and is very informative. I think that he has three lathes and one of them is a Sherline. There is also Taig, but I'm not real familiar with that brand. By the way, back in 1971 my young bride and I bicycled through England. Stayed in the country lanes so we were west of Derby. Beautiful country.