Die Filer Design Considerations.

[magu]

Hello all. Seeing as I nearly have my bridgeport up and running (see this thread if you care> linky) It will soon be onto another project. I am thinking of a die filer (filing machine). I have watched the progress of Bill Gruby's build as well as hearing George Wilson and others rave about them. Having drank the koolaid per-se, it seems like it would be a great tool to have and I feel it would be a manageable "first project" using my mill. I love the look of the MLA kit once built, but I just cant justify the cost at the moment with real life as it is. I have come up with a design that will be quite similar, but will involve more welding and no casting, I think it will work well. Before I finalize things however, I have a couple of questions for those who have actually used one of these contraptions:

1: How necessary is an overarm? I am planning on a pull design with linear bearings above and below a scotch yoke. I understand some old filing machines were effectively modified scroll saws, in which case the overarm makes sense, but many other machines seem to have them as well. I am curious about the rigidity of the file without one' I am planning to utilize the ~3" machine files, but having never used one I don't know what sort of pressure is involved. I would assume it is a "let the tool do the work" situation, where if you are putting any real lateral force on the file you are doing it wrong, but this is a blind assumption. Perhaps some folks with experience using a variety of styles would be able to chime in about what works, and doesn't.

2. Stroke. I have been thinking 1.5", any input?

3. File dimensions, I have read both 3/8" and 1/4" shank, also a variety of lengths. I am quite ignorant on the subject of files, could someone provide a brief primer or point me in the direction of what I need to know that I don't know I don't know yet?

A big thank you to all those who made it to the end of that long and rambling post. An even bigger thank you to anyone who might be willing to help me out.

 

[Chipper5783]

1: How necessary is an overarm? I am planning on a pull design with linear bearings above and below a scotch yoke. I understand some old filing machines were effectively modified scroll saws, in which case the overarm makes sense, but many other machines seem to have them as well. I am curious about the rigidity of the file without one' I am planning to utilize the ~3" machine files, but having never used one I don't know what sort of pressure is involved. I would assume it is a "let the tool do the work" situation, where if you are putting any real lateral force on the file you are doing it wrong, but this is a blind assumption. Perhaps some folks with experience using a variety of styles would be able to chime in about what works, and doesn't.

That depends on what you are going to do. There are lots of different things you can do with a die filer. You don't have to limit it to just files:

- Of course you can use a file, with the top end unsupported

- You can use a file, with the over arm roller support backing the file - keeps the file straighter, you can push harder, file taller things

- You can use a file the sliding over arm, greater support than the roller, but there is a full over arm in the way

- You can use a metal plate with abrasive paper glued on as a sanding pad (again supported how you wish - see above)

- You can use any number of different saw blades for cutting whatever.


- and many other arrangements.


I have a little Keller 1A. The sliding over arm and work hold down are in place. The roller over arm is swung out of the way towards the camera.

I have only used this a couple times. It is yet another project I am hoping to get to before long.

Best regards with your build. Please keep us informed of your progress.


Regards, David

 

[Doubleeboy]

I had a lot of fun building my MLA die filer a decade ago. Truth be told, I use it maybe once or twice a year. Not knocking your choice of toys..... but of all they guys I know with die filers, they all use them about as often as I use mine. If its just for hobby use or build, go for it. If I had it to do over I would have spent the time and money building something with more purpose. I personally get more use out of my Logan Shaper, another obsolete toy, than I do out of the die filer. The milling machine, lathes , horizontal band saw and hand tools are my main weapons, I forget I even have the die filer most the time.

cheers
michael

 

[Mark_f]

I have an Oliver die filer. The over arm is removable so I can use it or not use it. The over arm also has a hold down that can be set close to the part. This eliminates the part jumping up and down as can happen at times. I use it both ways. the stroke is not long , between 1 - 1 1/2" I would guess. Mine has a 12" round cast iron table which tilts. The FILES CUT ON THE DOWN STROKE. This is important. The files are expensive and getting harder to find. I make mine from regular files by cutting and grinding the ends and mounting them upside down so they cut on the down stroke. I use it quite often for dressing key ways in gears, pulleys , or collars. I use it to file shapes, dress edges of parts I make, and any thing else that needs filing. I do a lot of hand work with files so I tend to appreciate the value of this power tool ( a lot of people don't know how to properly use and care for files anymore). IT is a good tool , but many younger people don't even know about them. They don't seem to be real popular anymore, but if you make a lot of tooling for your other machines as I do, it can be useful. This is only MY experience and opinion.

 

[rmack898]

I too built the MLA filer and it is a great little machine for what it is. The only problem is that it lives in the storage cabinet under my surface grinder and it is out of sight so I forget that I have it. I often finish a job that would be much easier to do with the filer and then remember that I have it.

 

[tomh]

Just a thought here.
I know many of you are looking to build a dedicated die filer, but if you're on a budget here is something to consider .
Many of the old 30s-50s jig/scroll saws were equipped to use files also. ( Delta, boice crain, walker turner, craftsman and many others). These are often be picked up at flea markets yard / estate sales for a fair price, and buying or modifying the files to fit should not be a problem. Having a scroll/ jig/ filer in one might be something to consider.

 

[Silverbullet]

I ve always wanted one but haven't acquired it yet but it's on my want or build list . We had one in a machine shop I worked in , I think out of all the workers there I was the only one who even new what it was for or used it . Die shops use them more then regular shops do. I found using it to be a better way of taking care of specs for the government jobs we did. even just for the finish requirement.

 

[Ouija]

I'm new here and don't have a high enough post count to add links to my posts yet, but there is a guy that sells kits to make your own filing machine, and the price is about $120. You supply some odd bar stock and what not as well as the 1/4HP motor. If you do a Google search for "MLA-18" it should be the first link that pops up. I plan on ordering one for myself sometime soon. A Youtuber by the name of ClickSpring built one from this kit and says he really enjoys his.

Ahh, I see someone beat me to the punch.

 

[Larry Hoy]

I am building a die filler now from the idea from a atlas design it will run powered by a mini lathe