electronic lead screw

[WobblyHand]

I like the capabilities of that one and it seems to be fully (damn near?) CNC, it does not look to be an easy build and with no help videos of the build...seems daunting. I would love to go full cnc but without losing manual control, maybe a good fit, but like you, coding and problem solving, it might be frustrating for me (I have a G0602 with the Clough ELS) I have found the limit of the stepper Clough used on the leadscrew and am a bit nervous to change to what he changed to, probably for the same limitations.

Which stepper did you use? How many oz-in or Nm? I have a 4Nm stepper on my G0602. Think it is stuttering on 4 TPI threads, but I didn't give it a fair test. The 3/4" steel work piece was deflecting due to the root of the screw being too narrow. My stepper is connected 1:1 to the lead screw.

 

[GunsOfNavarone]

@WobblyHand it's been a while, but my build is EXACYLY like James' 1st go at it other than I hid all the motors/encoders and such. I know James went to a stronger motor, I just don't know if I would need to go into the code and changes steps and what not. changing a number isn't so bad, but connecting to the launch board (both physically and digitally can be a pain in the butt. Again, I bring this up because once the connection between spindle and encoder is stopped (by whatever means) you need to power down the ELS driver and launch board, then reboot.

 

[RJSakowski]

Which stepper did you use? How many oz-in or Nm? I have a 4Nm stepper on my G0602. Think it is stuttering on 4 TPI threads, but I didn't give it a fair test. The 3/4" steel work piece was deflecting due to the root of the screw being too narrow. My stepper is connected 1:1 to the lead screw.

Consider running the gear box in the 1C configuration. You will double your torque to the lead screw. I am using a 4.25 N-m hybrid stepper and have no problems so far. I did measure torque output as the ability of the carriage to lift a dead weight and found that I could lift 110 lbs.

Another thing that I discovered is that my half nuts were closing too tightly on the lead screw which required a fair amount of torque at no load. There is an easy fix for the 602. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/grizzly-g0602-half-nut-engagement.80832/#post-717716

 

[GunsOfNavarone]

@RJSakowski if someone were to change from 1A(?) to 1C, what changes would you have to do with the software? (I have a G0602 as well) I really want to upgrade to the stepper motor clough42 went to, but b/c of the potential of needed to go back into the software programming, I’m avoiding it for now. Honestly I’m not sure if his motor change even needed it. It’s rare I run into an issue, but I’d be lying if I said I have never done anything it couldn’t handle.

 

[RJSakowski]

There are several ways to handle this. I changed my lead screw pitch from 12 tpi to 24 tpi. Alternatively, you could change the encoder pulses.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I'm wondering what hardware software combination to use. the original ELS project seems a bit long in the tooth. There are 3 or 4 on github and a Russian lead screw design.

I "need" a 1/2"-12 left hand thread. My lathe has no reverse so i'm thinking it would be just about as hard to do the electronic lead screw as it would be to add the reverse. I'd also need to make a thread dial. Changing the gear on that thing set is no picnic either.

I'm just started on page one of a 54 page thread that began in 2019.

I'll try to refrain from further comments along the way so there wont be an entire block of comments from me on this ELS implementation, but I do have one comment based on what Greenail said above.

Given the pace of technology options and upgrades to small consumer lathes and add-ons, it only takes a brief period of time for any project to become long in the tooth. People keep asking me why do I want to undertake an ELS project when so many exist and when I can buy Rocketronics version which appears to be the cat's meow?

For the doing and learning perhaps? Or more importantly, to attain features lacking in every other ELS project I see. I want a final project that mirrors the new smart lathes like the microweily TY-16SV and YUWE T5 series. Those are only available in 1640 and larger, I want them in smaller size.

I want encoder wheel inputs that act like normal hand wheels for manual machining but that activate stepper or servo motors on the appropriate axis. I need DRO output integration and I want ability to program simple operations at a GUI for turning tapers, balls, etc etc. I want to integrate grinding operations, and add the functionality I have with my current ESP32 based machining micro-controller that does my surface feet per minute and feed rate calculations. Basically, I'm saying I want it all, the deluxe model to make machining complex operations easy, without the need to have a cnc lathe i dont have room or budget for.

I plan on putting and ELS on my Colchester Chipmaster, my brother's Colchester Master 2500, and my buddies craftex 10x20. Quite the range of sizes.
I expect that in a few years time someone will say how long in the tooth my project is too... Hobby lathes will only come a smart lathes. Maker's will be integrating AI into their ELS systems so that you only need to scan a plan, or dictate the basics of how the part is to be made and dimensions and the AI will program the operations and make everything for you. Except you get to chuck the part, and say you made it.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

It is really a very short distance from ELS to full on CNC and the CNC may actually be easier and cheaper to accomplish due to the availability of various kits. The total cost could run from <$500 to as much as you want to spend.

If you want to keep full manual capability then it gets a bit more complicated, but not a show stopper. The only addition required is backlash control on the carriage, and a couple of relays or switches to disconnect the stepper motors from the drives. I was going to do this to my lathe but then I bought a CNC lathe and dropped that project.

okay, one more comment.

Many people want an easy to use lathe not a nightmare to learn to make and operate hobbyist cnc lathe. I've seen literally 1000 failed, incomplete and sad cnc hobby lathes offered for sale on the highway of failures.

I have spent time fussing with cnc machining, and programming while collaborating with machine owners I've designed parts for. In my case I find it is much easier to have a smart lathe interface that I can input sequential operations into manually and have the lathe then cut the profiles I want cut. Not everyone has the same learning path, or desired workflow, or learning capacity and ELS equipped lathes are likely much easier to learn for machinists who know manual machining and have had some form or health issue that has caused cognitive issues that would make learning cnc very difficult if not impossible.

I want to make machining more accessible. An ELS is one tool that can help. I am also working on a manual for robbing banks so people can afford a lathe and the shop to sit it in... just kidding. I'm sure the youtubes has all sorts of such guides.

 

[greenail]

okay, one more comment.

Many people want an easy to use lathe not a nightmare to learn to make and operate hobbyist cnc lathe. I've seen literally 1000 failed, incomplete and sad cnc hobby lathes offered for sale on the highway of failures.

I have spent time fussing with cnc machining, and programming while collaborating with machine owners I've designed parts for. In my case I find it is much easier to have a smart lathe interface that I can input sequential operations into manually and have the lathe then cut the profiles I want cut. Not everyone has the same learning path, or desired workflow, or learning capacity and ELS equipped lathes are likely much easier to learn for machinists who know manual machining and have had some form or health issue that has caused cognitive issues that would make learning cnc very difficult if not impossible.

I want to make machining more accessible. An ELS is one tool that can help. I am also working on a manual for robbing banks so people can afford a lathe and the shop to sit it in... just kidding. I'm sure the youtubes has all sorts of such guides.

i just released the beta for my ELS here: https://github.com/jschoch/espels

ping me there if you want to collaborate.

 

[TorontoBuilder]

i just released the beta for my ELS here: https://github.com/jschoch/espels

ping me there if you want to collaborate.

somewhere I'd gotten the link to your github and bookmarked it. I do my research in dribs and drabs so not sure what thread lead me there.
I have a buddy who does my advanced electronics and software. He is very good. The most advanced I managed with adruino were simple things like an electronic indexer.

Your choices are very similar to what my friend recommended, so I'll likely be in touch about collaborating. If your project is well advanced then I dont see a need to duplicate efforts. If rocketronics was slightly different and had imperial I'd likely not want to make my own, but my friend and I are both fans of open source.
anyway, back to reading your thread

 

[TorontoBuilder]

I wanted to post an update and ask for some feedback from folks. I've been playing with haptic feedback and I think you could make a pretty intuitive ELS controller. My requirement is to limit the buttons/knobs and be something you don't have to look at to operate. The idea is to have a single "smart lever" which can act as a toggle, or 3 position switch, or variable detent rotary encoder, even have variable spring load per mode (e.g. rapid mode would have a stronger "virtual spring") etc etc.

I'm wondering what folks think about the control setup I describe below?

P.S. This morning I have fixed the oscillations in the PID loop in a very robust way.

Okay, I'm aiming far more towards the smart lathe/servo lathe concept, taking rocketronics to the next level. I never even considered haptic feedback...