Enco 105-1100 for sale; thoughts?

UPDATE:
I talked to the seller. He's a gunsmith and machinist selling it for a friend who wanted to get into machining. This friend never used it. He bought it from some guy (was in the Navy) who bought it new (in 1994, I think), used it a few times, then died of old age.
He told me it's "like new". I told him that the price was on the high side and said I'd offer around $1,000 based on seeing ones that are not as nice sell for less than that. He told me it has "nice" vises. I didn't ask what brand. He reiterated that it's just like the $4,000 one, but he couldn't tell me which Rong Fu it was similar to. Seems like he should know that if he's as experienced as he says. He has people coming tomorrow to look at it. I told him if they don't buy it to call me. I also told him to pass on my offer to his friend. He says he will, but he's not sure his friend is going to go for it. He says the first person to give him a wad of cash gets it. Sounds like all the usual script that people say! Ha!

Are you referring to the mill in post #15? If so, that is an RF-31/31 with what looks like an import vise. The additional two vises he is referring to are also not worth much - one small one in the main vise and one drill press vise. The tooling looks like some import R8 collets, some dowel plug cutters, assorted woodworking stuff and some end mills of unknown quality. All told, it might be worth $100 - 150 or so, to me at least.

The RF-31 sold for about $1800 back when they bought it new and he is asking for more than that, just because it has some tooling of dubious/unknown quality. This "gunsmith and machinist" is dreaming and is waiting for some shmuck with too much money and without the HM forum behind him to come along and swallow his rhetoric.

I would price this mill at $850 + 150 for the tooling and anything else that goes with it, so maybe $1000 - 1100 all in. For that, you get an 800# mill capable of doing some good work. If he balks, walk on. If he counters, your call but I would not pay more than $1200 for a 20 year old RF-31, even if it is in near new condition. Because one of these mill/drills is "like new" does not mean it is going to run as well as it can. The stock bearings are cheap and rarely maintained and most owners rarely grease and adjust them the way they need to be. You still need to tear it down, clean it up, fix whatever needs fixing and maybe replace the bearings. Then you'll have a mill. Fortunately, a Taiwanese RF-31 is simple to work on and is built to a much better standard than the Chinese equivalent.

One final thing. The spindle in these machines is still available but costs about $145.00 so look up inside the taper to be sure it isn't beat up and check the concentricity of the machine if you can.
 
For the collets you need to decide which type of collets you want to use. This will have a big influence on price. And ease of use. The most common choice seems to be between ER collets verses 5C collets. And in ER collets whether to get imperial or metric.

In making this decision I went with ER32 metric collets. The pros that I saw in ER32 metric collets were: No gaps in the clamping range. Each collet has a 1mm clamping range and a full set goes from 2mm to 21mm. Can be used on both the lathe (headstock and tailstock) and mill/drill. 5C collets cannot be used in the tailstock on the lathe. Ease of use in that with 5C collets you have to loosen and tighten the collet with the drawbar every time you change tools or collet size. With ER collets you just have to unscrew the collet nut to change tools or collets. When used on the lathe headstock the work piece can pass through the spindle with ER collets. Can't do that with 5C collets. With careful planning you rarely have to move the head of the mill/drill when changing tooling with ER collets. This is a big deal on a mill/drill. And because the lathe will have morris tapers whereas the mill/drill with have R8 tapers you will need two sets of 5C collets. One to fit the lathe and one to fit the mill/drill.

As to where to get prices you will have to shop around.
 
As to collets, it is set up for R8 so I see no reason to for other collets like ER or5c. I went an extensive set of R8 up to 3/4" and screw length (short) drills in fractional and numbered. With the big set of collets I pretty much eliminated the #1 reason to have to change head height, a drill chuck. I have to change collets for the different drills but at least I don't lose index on the part through changing height. Yeah, not as quick as a knee mill, whatever. Point being most of these " deals" dont include any complete sets of anything that will be useful. And I think this ploy of looking up present prices for 20yrld machines is silly.
 
UPDATE:
The $250 mill/drill in Buellton got sold. He was supposed to send me more pics and I was going to go up today or tomorrow, pending him telling me his schedule. I texted him and it was sold! DOH!

I heard back from the seller of the Enco in post #15. I emailed him to ask if he sold it and at what price:

As I feared, I had two no shows. It’s happened before, so it’s to be expected.

I talked to Charlie about the price being too high. He suggested we sell it without the extra attachments and vices but with only the usual accessories. Then we can sell the other stuff later. I’m going to advertise the mill with standard mill vice, drill chuck and key for $1400. Considering it’s condition, that should be more than a fair price. A comparable new mill would probably be the Jet #35007 @$2200 and no cabinet. The cabinets are over$400. But I believe that one is Chinese made. Most Chinese stuff is junk, IMO.

If you’re still interested, call me ASAP. I need to find out when Charlie is available.



My reply:
Hi, Ron. Thanks for getting back to me. I'm interested, but I can get a comparable Grizzly new with a cabinet for $1,800 delivered. Yours is 24 years old. It's nice, but the bearings were cheap on those and no telling if they've been lubed. This is based on what I know and what my machinists friends have told me. This is a Rong Fu clone and those are in the $600-$800 range. I'll come get it today if you want to sell it to me for $700.

His reply:
Thanks, we'll pass.

He got back to me real quick! At least he knows I'm interested. I think $1400 is way too much and I think his comparison mill is not really one that someone would look at if they are looking at this mill. I saw them, saw the price and passed, especially when I found the Grizzly and saw used ones available for less. I really hope he realizes that anyone looking for a mill like this will see the Grizzly and use that as a comparison. I think $900 max as a final offer. It's half of new and the machine IS in pretty good shape. Thoughts?
 
That machine is worth $1000 - 1100 with the machine vise. The rest of the tooling can be bought when your budget allows. I would call him and counter with whatever you can handle.
 
What about this one? I contacted the seller. It's a hobbyist selling off his stuff. Asking price is $925. Comes with tooling, but they didn't specify what. They said they have a few people coming to look at it. I'd go today, but I have to be home for a soccer game.
enco mill with DRO.jpg
 
Also an RF-30/31. Rusty but looks little used. Might be worth a look if made in Taiwan.
 
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