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Enco 12x36 Lathe Rebuild (Picture Heavy!)

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macardoso

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#31
I will be interested in future pictures of a project to add a dial to your ENCO lathe. For reference, this is a picture of my tailstock quill handle removed.
Dave, thank you very much for the pictures, they will become very helpful when I go to make that ring. I'll post lots of pictures about it.

Silverbullet, I've already got the machinery bug! I'm hoping to get everything set up and start seriously looking for some jobs within the next month or two. There will definitely be some tweaks to the machine but overall I am very pleased with it. I have the tools and instruments to do a nice alignment job, so if I can cut some nice parts soon I will be very pleased.
 

macardoso

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#32
I forgot to mention above, but here are the oils that I bought for the machine:

oil.jpg


They were the recommended ones from Grizzly. The DTE (McMaster 2158K15) is in the spindle bearings, apron, ball oilers, and anywhere else that needs a little oil. The Vactra No. 2 (McMaster 2158K21) is on all the ways, screws, gear rack, and in the tailstock. Even though they are both ISO 68, they behave very differently. I'm not sure I know oils well enough to describe it, but the Vactra is more "sticky".

To use the oil, I bought one of these bottles (McMaster 1902T127):
Needle Oiler.jpg


It easily depresses the ball oilers and gets into small places. I also have a habit of using way to much oil, so the tiny needle keeps me under control.

I didn't think it through, but I should have bought more of those bottles. Next time I order from McMaster I will get another.

Oil bottles.jpg

(The darker one is the Vactra)

I also ordered some ball oilers grease fittings to replace the one I broke. They are M6x1 if anyone needs a replacement.
 
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macardoso

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#33
Awesome! I'll still count mine to make sure but it sounds like you have the correct one. That's totally worth it.
58/21 just counted. Looks like you’re in luck!
 

macardoso

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#34
Chapter 7: Tooling and Measurement instruments

I think that now would be a good time for a discussion of lathe tooling and measuring instruments. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts and maybe I'll learn about some stuff I never knew of. What do you consider to be an essential package of tooling for a lathe or mill?

To start off, here is the 3 jaw scroll chuck that came on the machine. I'm sure it is of Asian decent, but if anyone knows the logo, please tell me.
3 Jaw 1.jpg

3 Jaw 3.jpg

(I know its dirty, I'll take care of it!)

I purchased a 4 jaw independent chuck from Small Tools in Euclid, OH. I went to pick it up in person and was blown away by their customer service. They even opened the crate to clean the chuck for me. On top of that, the chuck seems to be well made and was very inexpensive.
4 Jaw 1.jpg

4 Jaw 3.jpg

4 Jaw 4.jpg

Do you oil or grease a lathe chuck?

I purchased a MT2 and MT3 dead centers, an MT2 live center, and a MT5 to MT3 adapter (which needs some small modifications) from Shars. I really like buying from Shars. My personal opinion is they are a step up in quality from most things on Ebay and still quite affordable.
Live Center.jpg

MT5 MT3.jpg


Here is the beater drill chuck that I found in the casting near the tailstock. I doubt I'll ever use it. Also as random 1" shank endmill?
Bad Chuck.jpg

Bad Chuck 2.jpg

Endmill 2.jpg


And the new keyless one from Shars. I own several chucks but this one has the best fit and finish by far. I have to test the runout, but it feels really nice.
Shars Chuck.jpg


Here is the lathe's original 4 way tool post with some sort of parting blade holder. Not sure what it's for but it looks nice.
4 way 1.jpg

4 way 4.jpg

4 way 5.jpg


I currently have this indexable boring bar I usually use for the boring head on my mill. It uses TCMT inserts. I also have set of cheap brazed carbide boring bars for odd jobs.
Boring Bar 1.jpg


My favorite tool for steel is my no name fraken-WNMG holder. I had a past employer who gave me a small tub of inserts (some completely used, some almost new) so I have a lifetime supply of WNMG inserts.
WNMG 1.jpg


My favorite all around indexable tool is my SCLCR which uses CCMT or CCGX inserts. Trying out a CCGX (aluminum) for the first time.
SCLCR 1.jpg

SCLCR 2.jpg


For single point threading I have a MTVOR holder. Don't love this style as much as the flat threading inserts, but it gets the job done.
Threading AXA 2.jpg


And finally for parting I picked up a basic HSS blade to fit my new toolholder.
Parting.jpg


Not pictured are an assortment of drills, reamers, endmills, and anything else one might need for a milling machine.

Since this got a little long, I'll follow up with a separate post about metrology instruments.

Cheers! -Mike
 

macardoso

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#35
Quick update from yesterday.

I lifted the lathe back onto some wood blocks (with no small amount of effort with the engine hoist) so I could fit the hoist under it.
Lifting Lathe 1.jpg

Lifting Lathe 3.jpg

Lifting Lathe 4.jpg


After that I performed a rough alignment of the headstock to the bedways using a 3' piece of aluminum

Rough Alignment.jpg

Rough Alignment 2.jpg

Rough Alignment 4.jpg


This was just to improve the pulley alignment and make sure I wasn't damaging the change gears due to misalignment. I got it down to ~.0005 over 24", however this will change once the lathe is on the stand and I level the bed. I'll use a more precision method at that point.

I wired up the motor for direct connection to the outlet. I had some significant issues with the wiring and I'm pretty sure the wiring diagram on the lathe is wrong. I followed the motor name plate and it works great, but this diagram would have caused a line to line short. Glad I double checked. I'll have to investigate more into the matter. (Z1 and V2 are connected at the motor with a factory installed jumper)
Wiring Diagram.jpg


I let the spindle bearings run in for about 2 hours while ramping up the speed. The oil level dropped in the sight glasses so I believe there are internal cavities that were empty that filled with oil as I ran it in. I added oil until the sight glasses were half full when the machine was running. The bearings never got above 90*F or so, so I'm very pleased. One issue is that the motor is surging slightly during operation. It is an audible change in pitch, maybe 20-30 rpm. Not sure what is causing that at this time. My second issue is that the motor pulley is misaligned by 1/4-1/2" from the countershaft. I haven't found a way to successfully fix this yet. It isn't significant, but the belt rubs slightly against the flange and creates a little noise that might not otherwise be there.

As the belt ran in, the tension continuously dropped. At this point the motor bracket is fully extended, so I will need to remove a link from the belt. Otherwise I am very happy with the link belt.

Lathe Running.jpg


I also successfully extracted and replaced the broken grease fitting

Broken Fitting.jpg
 
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macardoso

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#36
Beginning Chapter 7: Setup and Alignment

Over the weekend I managed to get the stand cleaned up and brought down the basement.

I purchased some 300lb leveling feet to use with the lathe from MSC. I spent a long time trying to find reasonably priced leveling pads and MSC came in at $1.89 a piece.

1523892977576.png


I installed 4 of these into the holes on the stand and lifted the lathe over them with the engine hoist.

Lathe on Hoist.jpg

Lathe Over Stand.jpg

Lathe on Stand.jpg


I still have to screw down the center panel between the two cabinet boxes, but I'm finding the lathe very unstable and easily rocked back and forth (even after adjusting the feet). I fear that the cabinet may be too banged up to properly support the lathe. I will tinker with it some more, but I may need to add some square tubing to spread the feet out beyond the cabinets (front to back) or fabricate a new stand all together (sadly I haven't learned to weld yet).

I used a generic construction level to get the lathe roughly flat, then brought in my new master precision level to start the leveling of the bed. This was more to get a feel for the process, as screwing in that center segment will certainly distort the stand.

Precision Level 2.jpg


Plenty more to come on this matter. I'll also try to throw in a discussion on metrology instruments when I have time.
 

Dave Paine

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#37
I still have to screw down the center panel between the two cabinet boxes, but I'm finding the lathe very unstable and easily rocked back and forth (even after adjusting the feet). I fear that the cabinet may be too banged up to properly support the lathe. I will tinker with it some more, but I may need to add some square tubing to spread the feet out beyond the cabinets (front to back) or fabricate a new stand all together (sadly I haven't learned to weld yet).
My Grizzly stand is likely very similar if not identical. It is also not deep enough front-to-back. The location of the bolt holes within the cabinet makes things worse.

If you look back at the picture of my lathe in post #10 you will see I am not using the centre panel. This does not seem to add any stability.

I leveled the lathe with the 4 bolts in the outside holes. I then have 4 feet with rubber bottoms hand tighened in the 4 inside holes. This is just to help the stand stability side-to-side. Not taking any load.

I used one of the holes for the centre panel and used a piece of aluminium bar attached to a right angle bracket which is screwed into a stud on the wall behind the lathe. This helps the front-to-back stability. I need to make a better bar but for the moment this helps a lot. I think if you come up with some way to attach a support bar to the wall behind your lathe it will improve your front-to-back stability.
 

macardoso

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#38
I used one of the holes for the centre panel and used a piece of aluminium bar attached to a right angle bracket which is screwed into a stud on the wall behind the lathe. This helps the front-to-back stability. I need to make a better bar but for the moment this helps a lot. I think if you come up with some way to attach a support bar to the wall behind your lathe it will improve your front-to-back stability.
Dave, thanks for the idea! If you get a chance to share some pictures which show the feet or bracket I'd really appreciate it!
 

macardoso

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#39
OK so here is a quick discussion on measurement instruments.

My first job (internship) I worked as a technician in a metrology lab which worked on high precision gears. I got to use equipment on a daily basis which I would never be able to afford for my personal use and I became well versed in the use of various measurement instruments.

As far as these tools in the home shop go, buy what you need as far as your tolerances go, and then choose extra tools to make measurement jobs faster and easier. I could write a whole page on the various tools and tricks to measure difficult features, but I'll try to keep it short here.

Basically if you're trying to hit +/- .005", calipers are great for pretty much everything, if you're aiming +/- .0001", your instrument choice will be more difficult (and expensive!).

The basic rundown of instrument precision is that you double the resolution. On digital calipers the resolution is typically 0.0005", meaning you can count on them to measure 0.001" (if you qualify them against standards regularly). On mechanical devices you can estimate one division between the smallest marking. So on a micrometer which has a vernier tenths grating, you can estimate down to .00005 thus giving your quality micrometer a precision of .0001". Again these measurements only count if you qualify them against standards, and if you are in a commercial setting, have those standards qualified by a calibration and qualification service. So your rusty old vernier caliper will not be measuring rocket nozzles.

In my home shop I have collected many measurement tools some new, most used from various sources. I will share the ones I use the most and the ones I rarely touch.

My favorite tool is my Mitutoyo Digimatic calipers. They are your standard run of the mill electronic calipers, but have a nice fit and finish, and have outlasted several other pairs with no end in sight.

Mitutoyo Calipers.jpg


In the sad event that those die, I have a no-name mechanical dial caliper which never seems to be short on batteries :p.

Calipers.jpg


Second most used is my Mitutoyo absolute micrometer. This was a gradutation gift from my dad.

micrometer.jpg


For tool presetting (CNC) and general measurement, I use this shars brand 8" height gauge. Unfortunately my only granite surface plate right now is a 6x8" one from Tormach designed for tool presetting. Hope to pick up an 18x24" at some point.

Height Gage.jpg


For more precision work, I have a 0-6" micrometer set. Most of these are mismatched but I do have a set of standards with calibration certificates. I use these standards to qualify most of my tools.

Mic Set.jpg


My favorite indicator is my Fowler X-Test Swiss Type. It lost a tip to a keyway a year ago and I finally located the correct replacement tip. Glad to have it back.

X Test.jpg


During that year, I picked up a Shars .0005" indicator for something like $30. It works like a charm, but I do miss the swivel stem and double range of the Swiss indicator (Shars sells one of those too). I recently picked up a Noga style base from... you guessed it... Shars.

NOGA + Indicator.jpg


For measuring bores, I use a Mitutoyo 155-903 set of telescoping bore gages. These are a must have. For smaller bores I recommend either split tip style bore gauges or gauge pins.

Telescoping Gages 2.jpg


For measuring depths of internal features or some external features, I have a Starret 0-6" depth micrometer. If you've ever tried to use the back of your calipers to measure depths and found it very frustrating, you need a set of these.

Starret Depth Mic.jpg

Starret Depth Mic 2.jpg


Less often used but very accurate is a Federal .0001" dial indicator. It is old, but runs very true. Really only used for tramming or measuring runout.

Federal Indicator.jpg


New for the lathe are a set of thread measuring wires, metric and imperial theard gauges, and a master precision level.

Thread measuring.jpg


Master Level.jpg

(honestly this is so sensitive you'll want to pull your hair out)

Finally one last pin micrometer, it is pretty beat up but I trust it for +/- .001" and has saved me on some small and difficult to reach parts.

Pin Mic.jpg


I didn't take pictures of the various setup and layout blocks that I use, but having a number of decent quality 1-2-3 blocks, v blocks, and angle plates is a must. I also have a high precision cylindrical square for tramming my mill. I'm sure I forgot others but these are the main ones.

Not shown are a few sticks of a very tough green wax we used in the lab. Not sure what the material is, but we used it for checking inaccessible internal features. Heat it up, stick it on, let it cool then measure.

It is a never ending collection, but the more ways you can measure your part and machine, the more confident you can be as a machinist.

-Mike
 

Dave Paine

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#40
Dave, thanks for the idea! If you get a chance to share some pictures which show the feet or bracket I'd really appreciate it!
Nice set of measuring devices. You have a lot more than I have, so you win. LOL

I prefer the mechanical-digital-tumbler design of micrometer. Easy to read the numbers and no batteries.

The "temporary" bracket under the stand. I will eventually replace with a more robust version and have a bar on either side of the stand.

This is not meant to prevent the lathe from tipping over, just to reduce front-to-back motion during operation.

Lathe_stand_stability_bracket_8847.jpg


I have tool holders on a shelf mounted on the backsplash. This does not rock as much now as it did before I installed the bracket.

I purchased 8 of these "tapped neoprene mounts" from ENCO before they were closed down. You can purchase the mount and stud separately. The thought was to reduce vibration to the floor. These cost more than your feet, something like $8.

Machine_neoprene_mount_with_stud_8849.jpg


The lathe stand had been modified by welding plates on the bottom which are tapped for 1/2in x 13 tpi threads. A good size. I then found out that the mounts were designed to use the nut to raise or lower the machine. Since my plates are threaded and fixed, the neoprene would need to rotate as I tweak the height. Not good.

I used the as-purchased arrangement in the 4 outer bolt locations, a 1/2inx13 tpi hex head bolt with a taper machined on the end and a tapered hole in a piece of steel to spread the load. This is a picture of the right side stand.

Lathe_stand_feet_8848.jpg
 

macardoso

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#41
The "temporary" bracket under the stand. I will eventually replace with a more robust version and have a bar on either side of the stand.
I do like that setup a lot. I'll have to see what I can set up tonight! My G0704 was top heavy too until I bolted it to that black 2x3' steel plate you see in the picture. Weighs about 180lbs. She doesn't move anymore. It was free to me so long as I picked it up and moved it. Oh the good old college days.
 

Jeff Michel

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#42
Pretty nice lathe, most of the stuff I see at HGR is pretty well whipped. I have the exact lathe, though discontinued, Grizzly offered the identical lathe up till about five years ago. I believe they still offer parts.
 

macardoso

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#43
Pretty nice lathe, most of the stuff I see at HGR is pretty well whipped. I have the exact lathe, though discontinued, Grizzly offered the identical lathe up till about five years ago. I believe they still offer parts.
Jeff, I had been looking for a while and almost everything they have is either 10,000 pounds or beat to all h*ll. This was a lucky find. I didn’t mind the amount I paid because it was available right when I wanted it, and I can return it if anything was wrong. Plus it was 5 miles away. But HGR is expensive generally.

I already bought some parts from Grizzly and will probably need others in the future. It seems like it is going to turn out to be a nice machine.
 

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#44
I see you picked up a chuck from Small Tools. Their in the process of clearing out a everything so the owner "Bill" is really dealing right now. They were supposed to have moved around the first of the year, well they still have a bunch of stuff. If you need anything oddball, ask the mechanic in back, Ed knows where everything is hidden, he's very helpful. If you haven't and get a chance, check out McKean Machinery in Brookpark, John Brand is the owner and is a great guy on stilts. He's pretty good with his prices, especially the small change stuff that hobbyists are wanting.
 

macardoso

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#45
Lathe Update time!

I am getting pretty close to finishing her up, but there are still a few details to be hammered out.

To begin, I purchased some 36" steel U channel and added another 4 outside feet. This seriously increased the stability and I'm pretty sure I can't tip it over anymore, but there is still a slight bit of wobble as the bar flexes. I should have gotten 1/4" wall or better yet just a solid 3/8" bar. I might change that out in the future. It is a bit of a toe stubbing hazard, but I'm ok with that to have a stable machine.
Stabilizer Bars.jpg

Stabilizer Bars 2.jpg

Stabilizer Bars 3.jpg


I picked up the hardware to bolt the lathe to the wall, but I'm just waiting on getting the electrical panel done before I do that.

I removed all the switches from the front of the lathe and found them to be unusuable (plus who wants dirty old switches?). I replaced them with what I had on hand (an Allen Bradley toggle switch, CNC4PC Estop button, and an Allen Bradley push button) and I am very pleased. I replaced the oil soaked cable with some new high quality shielded robotics cables and put in some new cordgrips.

Switches 2.jpg

Switches 1.jpg

Switches 3.jpg


Notice I swapped out the light for a selector switch? This will be a "Reverse Enable" switch. Basically the lathe will ignore the reverse position on the power lever unless this switch is turned on. I can put a light for power indication on top of the electric panel.

I won't post the pictures for the electrical enclosure just yet, but expect a short write up on that in the next few days. I'm holding off on the alignment until I am ready to bolt the lathe to the wall.
 

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macardoso

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#46
I see you picked up a chuck from Small Tools. Their in the process of clearing out a everything so the owner "Bill" is really dealing right now. They were supposed to have moved around the first of the year, well they still have a bunch of stuff. If you need anything oddball, ask the mechanic in back, Ed knows where everything is hidden, he's very helpful. If you haven't and get a chance, check out McKean Machinery in Brookpark, John Brand is the owner and is a great guy on stilts. He's pretty good with his prices, especially the small change stuff that hobbyists are wanting.
Jeff, I haven't seen McKean Machinery yet, but it looks like they mostly have big equipment. Do they also have smaller tooling and such? I'll have to check them out.
 

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#47
Sorry for the slow reply, got sent out of town for a couple weeks. Short answer is yes. McKean handles equipment of all sizes and they have a modest assortment of small stuff, tooling/chucks/cutters/dividing heads stuff like that. They don't bother putting small stuff on their websight and the inventory changes all the time, they price it to sell.
 

macardoso

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#48
Hi again all, sorry for not updating this for the past few weeks. Work got very busy and haven't had a chance to post pictures. I am hoping to get some stuff out in the next week!

Quick question for you all. The 6 inch chuck that came on the lathe threads all the way on until the mount hits the back of the spindle nose. My new 8" chuck (with a 2.25x8" backplate) threads on 3-4 turns and stops but there is still an inch or so before it bottoms out. It seems plenty rigid, but the mounting concerns me. Could the back plate be wrong? Would my spindle be something other than 2.25"x8? My 8TPI thread gage matches perfectly.

Perhaps related... I cut the back plate mounted to the spindle. I measured .0002" axial runout on the face (all the way to the outside edge) and .0003" radial runout on the pilot diameter. Once I mount the chuck I am seeing .004" of axial runout (which seems very excessive). The threads on the spindle and backplate are clean and have no burrs. I noticed yesterday that the chuck has a almost invisible gap between it and the backplate. Maybe there are burrs on the back of the chuck?
 

Dave Paine

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#49
Your chucks and faceplate(s) should screw all the way to the register at the headstock end of the spindle threads. If your spindle has the same thread as mine, it is 2 1/4in x 8 tpi, same as my SB Heavy 10.

The new backplate sounds like the threaded hole is not deep enough. The chuck should fit against the backplate with zero gap.
 

macardoso

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#50
Your chucks and faceplate(s) should screw all the way to the register at the headstock end of the spindle threads. If your spindle has the same thread as mine, it is 2 1/4in x 8 tpi, same as my SB Heavy 10.

The new backplate sounds like the threaded hole is not deep enough. The chuck should fit against the backplate with zero gap.
I'll have to use my new thread wires to check the spindle dimensions. I really really hope the threads are 2.25x8!

The backplate is threaded through, so it is just binding on the threads.
 
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macardoso

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#51
OK, so spindle measured 2.2633 over .0717 wires so its right on the money if not a touch small. Took the backplate back to Small Tools and they offered to exchange it. They didn't have another in stock so they said they would re-tap the hole and gauge it. Again, it is nice shop run by very helpful people. I'll be going to them again if I need anything!
 

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#52
Quick update again. The 8" backplate ended up having the pilot diameter bored 10 thou' undersized. I bored it correctly to size and now everything looks great! Once again, a million thanks to Small Tools Inc. for helping me figure out the issue!

The electrical panel has been completed for a while and works great. A pair of contactors control the FWD/REV control. I ended up swapping out all the switches for AB hardware.

I started a new project of machining servo motor mounts for my CNC mill. The stock was 4"x4"x18" weighing 40-50lbs. I parted off several chunks (effectively parting a 5.5" diameter bar, what a pain!) and squared them using the 4 jaw on the lathe. I have 8 pounds of chips laying on the floor. This lathe is a workhorse, and I can remove probably 5 times the amount of material compared to my mill.

1.jpg

This guy was a 2.25x8tpi thread lap. I thought the threads were slightly undersized on my backplate so I was getting ready to lap it. It will be saved for the future if needed. Good practice for threading.
2.jpg

Big chunk of aluminum!
3.jpg
4.jpg
5.jpg
6.jpg

7.jpg

(There are the fully installed leveling feet)


8.jpg


Until next time, Cheers!
 

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tweinke

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#53
Good to hear you have the bugs worked out.
 

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#54
Looks like you've put a lot of effort into that lathe - good work - I'm sure you will do well with it.
I have exactly the same lathe right down to the colour, sold in Australia as a Heerless mine I think was purchased around 1983, for me it has been great (hobby work only), I have though fitted a 3 ph motor and VFD. I mounted the mains on/off, jog button, fwd/rev switch and speed control on the small sub panel near the gear change levers, the original stop start is still works as stop start only. In setting up the VFD and 3 ph motor I did away with the 2 step motor pulley and fitted a link type belt from the counter shaft to headstock, mostly I use the vfd speed control rather than shift the belt.

There is another mod that I found useful you may want to do - the lead screw half-nut lever mounted on the apron has a spring loaded pivoting lockout bar that prevents power feed from being applied when screw cutting, if you have looked at the rear of the apron you will know what I mean, older lathes made in the 70's and earlier did not have this lockout mechanism and I thought why do you need it - who would engage power feed while screw cutting anyway ?

The issue here is that the spring is working against the half-nut lever trying to return to its rest position, I noticed on a few occasions while screw cutting that the half-nut lever seemed to be working its way back up, so I always had my hand on it. On removing the apron to investigate the cause of this and seeing the lockout mechanism my immediate thought was to remove it altogether as it did really look like a crudely made after thought and in any case who would engage power feed while screw cutting anyway ? On looking at it more closely I realised the same could be done with out the spring by redesigning the pivoting metal bar, it did take me 2 goes as on the first attempt I was a but too eager with the file but the second one worked a treat. I don't have any photos unfortunately - but if I'm sure if you have a look you'll see how it can be done.
 

macardoso

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#55
I contacted Grizzly and was able to purchase the three missing metric change gears which should arrive in mid-June.
As an update, I ordered the spare change gears at the end of March, I still have not gotten them. I call every month and get the same answer that the shipment is delayed.
 
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