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Enco 13X40 Cracked Top Slide Way

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mxr662

Andy Little
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There is a crack in back of the top slide and the way is bent. Should I try and braze this back together? The rest of the lathe is in pretty good condition.
Sharpie line to show crack.

IMG_20181104_052751.jpg
 

BaronJ

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You could try and braze it ! However I suspect that it will warp and may even crack further. Even so you will still have a machining job to get it all straight afterwards.

In the old days it would be heat soaked in a furnace and then welded up whilst still in there, then afterwards allowed to cool slowly. Even so with luck and a fair wind you might get away with minimal distortion and machining.
 

RJSakowski

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Depending on how long the crack has existed, it may well be contaminated with crud which would prevent proper penetration of braze into the crack. I would agree that warping is likely.

Should you decide to try a braze repair, a common practice when repairing cracks in castings is to drill the end of the crack to prevent further growth of the crack.
 

benmychree

John York
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I would secure the cracked piece in place with a few allen head capscrews down through the top. Contamination aside, braze does not penetrate cracks to begin with. Since there is so little strain on the guideway at the back end of the slide, little needs to be done to secure it, welding or brazing will do more damage than good.
 

mxr662

Andy Little
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The lathe came to me with the crack. I can see some marks where someone hammered on the top slide.
 

bfd

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andy, bolting it as john suggests the top of the ways where the bolt head would be is not a bearing surface and the chips would not hang up there and cause gouging of the ways. one other thing is to put a hole at the end of the crack to stop it from continuing along, do not put the hole in the bearing surface of the ways bill
 

Sblack

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There is a crack in back of the top slide and the way is bent. Should I try and braze this back together? The rest of the lathe is in pretty good condition.
Sharpie line to show crack.

View attachment 279404
Is that a topslide or cross slide way? If it was a topslide I was going to advise you to look for a new one as they might be easy to find. In fact a lot of guys are replacing the topslide (compound for us in NA) with a solid block to make the machine more rigid. But a cross slide is a different matter. Welding cast iron is tough because with the high carbon content it is brittle and can't take any internal thermal gradient without cracking. So as the previous poster mentioned, you can't heat up one area and have the adjacent areas still cold - it will suck the heat from the weld and also the internal stresses will cause a crack for sure. So you have to heat the whole thing up in say a bbq, insulate it with blankets, weld it, then cool it down gradually. There are newer nickel based welding rods that can weld the material quite well. And you can braze it. And some guys weld it with directly with a torch, flux and filler metal from cast iron piston rings (Kent White for one - but he is not your average welder). Then they put the part in a wood stuff with some logs and let it burn down over 24 hrs or back in the bbq and let it all cool gradually. But for an enco Chinese lathe you have to wonder if it is worth it. Try to get a replacement part if you can.
 

Dabbler

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Really this is a job for a professional, not a first timer.
 

Janderso

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What did you end up doing on the Enco Andy?
Just curious as always
 

ericc

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TIG silicon bronze, ala this old tony, looks like it is helpful for low distortion build-ups. Maybe a combination of the screw and silicon bronze. I have had some luck with soft solder. Keep all contact areas large using plates/pins, and keep the flame off the interface. Brownell Hi Force 44 is good stuff and flows well with the correct flux. One may say that it is only good for about 10000psi or so, but that goes a long way with a plate and/or pins.
 

mxr662

Andy Little
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countersunk some allen heads in with red loctite to fix the crack
View media item 97530
Followed along with Keith Rucker videos and milled the carriage. Milled both sides in one setup so hopefully they are parallel. Indicated it in on the mill with the side that faces the chuck to try and get the geometry correct.
View media item 97531
Did some surface grinding to clean up the cross slide and top of carriage.
View media item 97534View media item 97533
Milling the dovetails cleanup most of the surfaces except a bit where the crack was.
View media item 97532
 

john.k

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Very wise to avoid heating......even a slight warping would prevent the saddle sitting square on the bed.....I dont think the area is critical,and could have been removed entirely from the saddle by milling right across.But even doing that might cause a release of tension in the casting.
 

mxr662

Andy Little
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One of the issues with this lathe is that the lengthwise angle of the gib did not match the angle of the slide. This was before any of my work. Because of milling the dovetails on the carriage and slide a new gib will likely need to be made. But if I can get the angle correct on the old gib, I can use that to hold the new gib at the correct angle for milling and grinding.

Made a gib holder and got the angle close.
View media item 97539
Surface grinding the gib with the magnet off, the gib on a block to get the angle correct, and c-clamps holding blocking at either end. Took very light cuts.
View media item 97540
 

Janderso

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I am so impressed Andy.
Well done.
 

Richard King 2

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Andy are you the Andy that took the Class a few years back that DH Mayeron hosted at the Blacksmith shop? Looks good. But as John said I would not braze it and just bolt it down. Most Hobby machinists will never put heavy strain on that part of the machine. It was probably cracked when it came out of the factory. One thing I would do how ever. Before lock-tite-ing it down, I would test the way by either indicating it with mag base mounted on the cross-slide and indicator against the repaired dovetail and test to be sure it isn't high or out of parallel with the rest of the way. You could use 2 dowel pins and a micrometer too. John or someone else maybe set this up and take a picture if he doesn't understand what I'm saying.

Andy I would grind the gib a bit differently. I set another mag chuck on top of the one on the grinder and raise or shim the other chuck with gib magged down, I have a couple of photo's of a gib I ground on a Cross-slide rebuild my son and I did in Oklahoma last September. We gluded Rulon to the cross-slide and scraped both sides. Also the Keith Rucker Video was shot with me standing in the background. He did it when we did a scraping class there a couple of years ago.

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mxr662

Andy Little
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Andy are you the Andy that took the Class a few years back that DH Mayeron hosted at the Blacksmith shop?
Nope, I am the Andy who has signed up for your April 2019 class in Vacaville.
One thing I would do how ever. Before lock-tite-ing it down, I would test the way by either indicating it with mag base mounted on the cross-slide and indicator against the repaired dovetail and test to be sure it isn't high or out of parallel with the rest of the way.
It is already loct-tite-ed down. It was a bit high and tilted inward. The screws pulled it most of the way down. Both dovetails have been milled so there is no going back. I milled both dovetales in one setup so they are somewhat parallel.

I put it back together, shimmed the gib, and tightened it all down as much as I could. Faced a 4 inch square piece of aluminum. Placing a straight edge corner to corner I am just over one thou low in the center. I am hoping this is a good indication of spindle to cross slide alignment.

Andy
 
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