Erector set part number 'P1133' motor terminal nut

BGHansen

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Yeah, another reproduction Erector set part string. This one is a pretty simple part, Gilbert numbered it “P158” in 1913 – 1923 and “P1133” from 1924 – 1947: Motor terminal nut- 4-40 thread.

The A. C. Gilbert Company started selling Erector sets in 1913 and had a unique to that year motor. In 1914 they introduced a new pre-assembled motor (1913 motor was in kit form). Then in 1915, they introduced the P58 motor which was included in sets up through 1947.


The P58 motor included in Erector sets from 1915 - 1947. These were battery or AC powered (up to ~12V AC). Wires were held in place with 4-40 knurled nuts
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Guys like seeing flames and sparks which are hard to photograph. There are usually plenty of sparks coming from the brushes/commutator
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Hard to believe there was a time when power was not transmitted to every house. Back at this time, many houses, especially in rural communities, did not have power lines running to them. Gilbert’s original motors were all AC/DC motors so kids could run them off a train transformer or batteries.

The P58 motor had four 4-40 knurled brass nuts for attaching a shunt and power from a transformer or batteries. It was a small part that was commonly lost. So, not a lot of demand, but enough demand to warrant making a few.

The nuts are made from ¼” diameter brass. They have a 4-40 threaded hole, are about 0.130” thick and are knurled. I make heavy use of drill bushings for the lathe work. Changing from a center drill to start a hole, then switching to a tap drill takes time, albeit not too bad with a keyless chuck, but does take a few extra seconds.

I started by making a drill bushing from ½” OD drill rod. Started by facing, center drilling and drilling a ¼” hole in the drill rod. Then followed up with a #42 drill. “The book” says use a #43, but a lot of these motors end up with some corrosion on the 4-40 screws so a step up on the tap drill makes for easier threading. Parted after drilling, flipped, and faced the opposite side. Lastly, hardened the bushing with a MAPP gas torch (and left it at full hard).


Pretty simple lathe job of facing, center drilling, drilling a 1/4" clearance hole so the bushing fits over the 1/4" brass, then drill a #42 hole for locating the tap drill on center. Part, flip, face the opposite side and flame harden.
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In use, I chuck up the ¼” brass in a 5-C collet and a #42 drill bit in the tail stock. Slip the drill bushing over the #42 drill, set the tail stock close to the brass, slip the drill bushing over the brass and drill the #42 hole. The drill bushing holds the drill bit on center so I can skip the center drilling step.


Drill bushing in use. Fire up the lathe, slip the bushing over the 1/4" brass, then drill the #42 tap hole. The bushing holds the drill bit on center so I can skip the center drilling step.
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After center drilling, I power tap the 4-40 hole with a Milwaukee M12 right angle drill motor. Again, saves a tool change on the tail stock to a spring center and tap wrench. Use a pinch-knurler with a diamond pattern per the original part. I find with brass after a while the knurls start to load up. Don’t know if this is the proper cleaning technique, but I use a file card to clean the knurls while it’s running. After knurling, part the nuts off to length.


Power tap with a Milwaukee cordless right angle motor. I use the right angle motor so the tail stock doesn't have to be slid back as far out of the way. After threading, knurl and part.
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Parting leaves a nib on the end of the nut which I take off with a Scotchbrite wheel on a bench grinder. Naturally, not a lot to hold onto, so I made a tool to hold the nut for clean-up.

Started with a ¼” piece of CRS and turned a nib on the end that fits into a 4-40 threaded hole. This part would be a knock-out pin.


Turned a shoulder in 1/4" CRS that just slips into a 4-40 threaded hole
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Then made a holder out of 5/8” aluminum (was in the chip pan of my Clausing). Drilled a ¼” through hole for the knock-out pin. I measured a knurled nut at 0.260” diameter, so drilled a 17/64” hole 1/8” deep to hole the knurled nut. Knurled the aluminum and parted. Flipped and faced the opposite side and drilled a 17/64” hole in that end also so it’s a double-ended tool.


Chucked up some at-hand 5/8" aluminum. Faced, center drilled and drilled a 1/4" clearance hole. Knurling grows the part some, so came back with a 17/64" drill bit so the nuts would drop into the holder.
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In use, a nut is set in the hole with the nib out. Go to the Scotchbrite wheel and sand/polish it off, then knock out the nut.


Set the knurled nut in the holder and knock off the nib on a grinder with a Scotchbrite wheel.
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I ended up making close to 20 per hour. These typically go for $2 - $3 each on eBay depending if 2 guys are battling or not. So no new lathe or mill, but they’ll fund a few odds and ends for my shop!


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Thanks for looking,

Bruce
 
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Always learn something in your posts Bruce. Never used or seen a drill bushing used before. Most of the pics are deceptive because everything looks big. But only because I just did drill and tap some 4-40 set screws do I know first hand how tiny they are and how especially tiny the #42 bit is.

thanks for posting.
 
Really nicely done and we'll documented, Bruce ... as usual!
 
My Erection set was much newer- I never saw a motor like that. They must have gone thru several periods of manufacture
-Mark
 
I got an Erector set for Christmas probably around 1948 or 49. It came with a motor with an exposed gearbox in a metal frame. As I recall it had a lever that came up from the frame to reverse direction. The set cost $19.95 and you could make a Ferris wheel with it — at least I think you could.
 
Bruce -
I recall a blurb on the cover of a '60s vintage Mickey Spillane novel. It went something like this:
"If you have a handful of books and one is by Spillane, you can either read it right away or save it for dessert."
Finding the title of one of your Erector Set posts on the Members Projects forum is like that for me. Thanks for yet another one!
 
Correction to the above post:
After posting, I went and looked at all the Mickey Spillane books in my library, and couldn't find the blurb. Figgered I'd lost and later replaced one or two of the books. Then an hour or so later, I decided to look at my Donald Hamilton paperbacks. Found the quote on the back of the 1964 (second printing) Fawcett Gold Medal copy of Hamilton's Murderers' Row:
"If you have half a dozen thrillers at hand and one of them is by Donald Hamilton, you can either grab it at once or save it for dessert." - N. Y. Herald Tribune.
Other than citing the wrong author, I'm surprised at how accurately I recalled the quote. Interestingly, this quote also appears on some later Hamilton books, but attributed to "Book World." Wikipedia lists "Book World" as the entertainment section of either the Chicago Tribune or the Washington Post, depending on the year.
 
I got an Erector set for Christmas probably around 1948 or 49. It came with a motor with an exposed gearbox in a metal frame. As I recall it had a lever that came up from the frame to reverse direction. The set cost $19.95 and you could make a Ferris wheel with it — at least I think you could.
Probably what was numbered an A49 motor. There were many changes through the years. I attached a PDF from a parts guidebook I wrote about 10 years ago showing the different motors used from 1933 - 1962. Your set was probably a No. 8 1/2 set if it built the Ferris wheel although they sold a No. 9 1/2 (next largest set in 1948-49) and a No. 12 1/2 those years too.

Bruce


1948/49 No. 8 1/2
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1948/49 No. 9 1/2
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1948 No. 12 1/2
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I think its fantastic that you have taken up Gilbert Erector Sets as what has obviously been a long term interest. I used to lust after all the Gilbert stuff, including American Flyer trains. I ended up with Lionel however.

There is a company, 8020 Inc., that sells what they call "the industrial erector set." It uses aluminum extrusions and brackets to build pretty much whatever you want. I posted this on another thread, but I built a complete 16' x 22' Lionel train layout using the stuff.
 

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I stumbled onto 80/20 in a local Craigslist ad. It was just the solution to what I had been struggling with for years. i love it’s flexibility but you definitely need deep pockets if you are buying new. Mine was used from an old DIY CNC router table that was scrapped. Got 75’ of 10 series 2”x2” plus tons of corners and braces for $175. There’s no way I could have afforded all that new.
 
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