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Escape 2001 Vacuum Lines Melted EGR Valve Replace with Stainless tube ?

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Linghunt

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#1
Hey guys, Been slacking of late on posting. Got a strange one , did know where to locate it.

Tell me if I'm fueling the train down the wrong track.

I'll try to be concise.

Kids 2001 Ford Escape 3.0 L Had a noise we thought might be tranny, we parked it for a while and needed to get it going andf ran it over to the Local Tranny shop. They looked at it and figured out it was an idler bearing for a belt. All done

Kid's headed off to 3 day Event and gets about 30 miles away and something goes wrong. He goes back to tranny shop and they see the EGR valve has a huge hole blown in it. They replace it and check it over and good to go. Kid is back on the road again and go figure with in like 5 minutes the EGR Valve blows up again . Back to shop and they tell him take it home and return the blown EGR on Monday for refund. Tells him to check of debris in the Intake manifold of the feed tube going to exhaust.

Ok , I take of the EGR and go figure there are two melted vacuum lines . In half and self sealing . not sure what happened 1st the melted tubes or the Valve failure.

Tube is that hard walled plastic that you can't find to replace. watching videos and digging around nothing. Mcmaster Carr was thought, but what do others do. I see folks rigging with rubber tubing plastic elbows and wire ties.

I found some SS tubing. It's 316L and the right size 3/16" ID and some 1/8" ID . Was thinking about flaring the ends on the lathe ( low speed metal forming )

Tubing can fit them into the different coupling and then no worries about melting. Flaring is over kill but sounded like fun.

SS tubing a bad idea? Not seen it before on a Car / Truck. Figured I might be missing something really simple. Got Pictures I can post if you guys want, Figured most of you hate working on cars too.

( unless you can make a custom tool ) Thanks in advance.
 

Linghunt

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#2
 

Linghunt

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#3
 

Linghunt

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Linghunt

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#5
3 pictures of Original Part. Next 3 are the Replacement part.
 

Linghunt

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Linghunt

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#7
 

Linghunt

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#8
 

Linghunt

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#9
Now the Plastic Vacuum lines. Pretty wild part failure. I did find others out there so this is not rare deal.
 

Linghunt

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Linghunt

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#14
I made a short Video , not sure it helps or not.

Going to look at bending and forming some Tube in the morning.

 

pdentrem

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#16
I agree about check the exhaust system. That metal melted and blown out is not anything I had seen in the years I worked at a dealership. EGR valves usually fail with a stuck pintle valve due to electrical control going bad or carbon buildup. This is very different!
 

RJSakowski

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#17
general opimion seems to be a clogged cat that causes the egr to fill with flammable gasses and explode, have a look at this, apparently a common problem. https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Discussion-t561_ds512410
To take it a step further, look for the cause of a clogged catalytic converter. Generally, feeding it with carbon compunds will do it. Oil burning, rich fuel mixture, etc. A Freon leak into the vacuum lines will do it also, although the A/C failing and the phosgene gas in the exhaust would probably be noticed first.

In my case, on my wife's '97 Chevy S10 Blazer, a leak in the intake manifold caused a pool of antifreeze in the valley and a second leak on the intake was sucking it into the engine. The engine was running worse and worse, eventually not running at all. I pulled the front O2 sensor which relieved back pressure and the engine ran again.

I replaced the catalytic converter and did an autopsy on the old one. One section of the converter had completely collapsed and the other two were 80% clogged. I also had to replace the EGR valve.

I found the root cause of the problem from a lead on an automotive forum. In that case, one of the fuel injectors had developed a leak and raw fuel was being dumped into the intake manifold. The author's description of the cause of catalytic converter failure got me digging deeper. I already was aware of a small coolant leak but never could track it down. when I pulled the intake manifold, I noticed the antifreeze and saw where it was being sucked in.
 

markba633csi

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#18
Quoted from a muffler shop:
Jeff answered 3 months ago:
"I Run Exhaust Pros in Richfield, MN. the problem is indeed a plugged Cat. Ford had the bright idea of running the primary cats too close to the manifold, so if your car isnt running perfect, you get unburnt fuel in the cat, which eventually ignites and either shatters the ceramic, blowing the pieces into the secondary cat and plugging it there, or melting the ceramic at the primary resulting in a big slag ball. for those of you that talked about soaking and cleaning, dont bother, it wont work. for those that changed out the plugged secondary, the reason you are throwing a code now is that the primary cat is empty. The car will run, but will be running rich ALL the time, making noticeable difference in fuel economy."


Mark
 

tweinke

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#19
Yup I would definitely say plugged cat. If it fell apart inside also make sure the rest of the exhaust isn't plugged with the debris. Have seen that several times at work. Be sure the engine runs properly with no misses when you are done or you will be in the same boat again shortly.

Todd Ford Senior Master Tech ( my day job, chips are more fun )
 

Linghunt

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#20
Thanks to everyone. The buildup in the valve and explosion inside makes sense . Not seen this before.

Going to fix the vacuum lines 1st and go from there. Here is a block diagram I found ( DIFFERENT CAR ) . but helps me see what is going on.

Other information: The escape got run thru Smog process in Oct of 2017 and the " noise " he thought was tranny ( was bearing on idler pulley ) was a concern. Escape not driven almost NONE. He was driving Dad's truck. KIds lol .

In process to figuring out pulley noise, they did Rev it up high to find noise. Not that this matters , just data.

How does one go about verifying Cat performance ? CPU codes? O2 signals . not sure.

Going here for help was good idea vs one of the auto forums. good info on them, but lots of "Fake News" there to filter out.


 

tweinke

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#21
If you were to put a pressure gauge on the DPFE line marked EMS and start the car there should be very little pressure. You will need to run the engine up to about 2000 RPM and hold it there. More then a few PSI then you have a plugged cat or exhaust. This will only work for Bank 1 which is where your EGR valve is.
 

pdentrem

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#22
It used to be 1 psi or less for every 1000 rpm. I don’t know if things have changed since I got out of the trade.
 

tweinke

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#23
From Ford PCED manual for reference. And remember this was not posted as chest bumping by me just as information to help.

HF8 : CHECK FOR EXCESSIVE EXHAUST BACK PRESSURE WITH EXHAUST BACK PRESSURE TOOL
NOTE: Typical exhaust back pressure, when measured near the exhaust manifold and at normal engine operating temperature, should not exceed 20.7 kPa (3 psi) at idle and 55.2 kPa (8 psi) at wide open throttle (WOT) under load.
  • Install an exhaust back pressure tester and follow the tool manufacturer installation and testing instructions

  • Does the exhaust back pressure test indicate a restriction?
Yes
REPAIR as necessary.
Clear the PCM DTCs. REPEAT the self-test.
To continue diagnosis of a symptom (lack of power, loss of power, or no start), REFER to Section 3, Symptom Charts.
 

7milesup

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#24
I almost would be surprised if there isn't a hole in one of the pistons after that little episode. My daughter had a Mazda 6 Wagon with a V6 in it. It had four Cats and the front one plugged and burnt a hole through #1 piston. Dear old dad went to a salvage yard and replaced the motor with a Ford Fusion motor along with custom set of headers. That'll teach them cats to hang around... ;)
 

Linghunt

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#25
Made a Video and deleted it as I was uploading. 2nd video turned out better.


Thanks for all of the help , We do appreciate it
 

lordbeezer

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#26
Should be a vacumn diagram under your hood.
 

tweinke

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#27
Help is what we are here for. now if we could tie a bit of machining into this...….....
 

rgray

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#28
Help is what we are here for. now if we could tie a bit of machining into this...….....
Machine a custom 02 sensor test bung. Mine is a sensor hole plug with a hole drilled through the middle and a piece of copper tube
stuck in it to hook the vacuum/pressure gauge hose to.
I find it's a great way to test the cats, by pulling a forward 02 sensor and screwing in the test plug with vacuum/pressure gauge connected.
Starting and revving the engine gives a very fast indication of whether they are a problem or not.
Needle will show almost no pressure on a good set of cats, and will look like it's trying to be a tachometer with a bad set of cats, the needle will move with rpm.
A shop that does custom exhaust will usually have 02 sensor hole plugs as well as weld on 02 sensor fittings.
 

Linghunt

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#29
Thanks guys, The O2 port/bung is a good idea. I think I bad some 1018 bungs years ago for some one.

During testing leaving the 02 sensor dangling in Air ok I figure, vs making a "Tee" deal that can do screwed in to the exhaust and then branch to sensor and pressure gauge.

A Aluminum tube or rod with enough wall should be ok, a 303 or 1018 insert to mount to exhaust.

Machine tools sure does come in handy.
 

Linghunt

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#30
Should be a vacumn diagram under your hood.
I got one on my truck, didn't notice it on the Kid's escape. Captain obvious here lol, didn't even think to look. Thanks my freind
 
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