Face mill recommendations?

mksj

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I recommended the square shoulder Haas because of the deeper cut and higher rate of material removal, but you can also go with a 45 degree shoulder type with the insert seat pocket more vertical as opposed to significantly positive. Also want to look at the number of cutting edges per insert as that will effect time before replacement/costs. You are limited by the rigidity and Hp, but you should be able to spin a 2.5" head w/o difficulty. The 833T (assuming gear head) should have plenty of power due to it's geared head) where the 833TV might have some more difficulty in steel. Aluminum you can definitely dial up both RPM and feed, and benefits from a more positive rake pocket. I was just impressed with the Haas in steel, the finish was great and very little vibration. The arbor for the face mill is a function of the size face mill, I have been using the Sowa shell arbors which are reasonably priced and well made. Please note that you may need to buy a different mounting bolt for the Haas face mills, as they use ones with a smaller bolt head then provided with the arbor. You could also use a rougher like a 3/4 or 7/8" and hog out a lot of material and then come back with a face mill for final finish.

There are a multitude of factors as to how a face mill will perform so one can generalize, but it does not account how an individual face mill will perform and the type of insert used. That being the case, I get very good finishes with all the different face mills I use, and part of this has to do with the design/accuracy of the head and the inserts. There have been a number of issues with some of the generic types having different insert heights with poor finish. I run a 4" face mill for final finishing and the inserts can be setup for either ferrous or non-ferrous materials, since they are positive rake they cannot be flipped, but have 8 cutting edges. DOC is probably limited to around 0.050", this is around 2800 RPM, feed of 10-12 IPM in 7075, mill is 3 Hp and not breaking a sweat. So there are a number of choices, they will all work reasonably well given you are not looking at maximum material removal rates.
Isacar 4 inch Face mill.jpg
 

macmccaskie

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but you should be able to spin a 2.5" head w/o difficulty. The 833T (assuming gear head)
Thank you! Yes, it is geared head so now I know what size.

but you can also go with a 45 degree shoulder type with the insert seat pocket more vertical as opposed to significantly positive
Gak! Please explain "insert seat pocket more vertical". The I've got the concept of negative vs positive (and shear angle), but "insert seat pocket"?

I've seen those octo mill heads and wondered about them. I get my end mills from Sun coast, thanks for the tip.
 

mksj

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Think of the rake the same as you would have in the a lathe holder. A positive insert axial rake leans forward or in a lathe holder up at its contact point and requires less Hp to cut but is also more fragile because it requires more relief behind the cutting edge. A neutral axial rake is vertical (or horizontal in a lathe), requires a bit more Hp, but is more durable and a negative axial rake angle leans back in a face mill or down at the cutting edge in a lathe holder. The edge does not require any relief so can be flipped and also is very strong, but requires more Hp. The way that the chip forms and cuts is different, a negative rake needs to almost push or tear the material away which requires more rigidity and Hp. A negative rake insert pocket with an insert with a positive rake edge would give a better finish, but the cutting conditions DOC, RPM and SFM would be reduced. The Haas cutters mentioned have a vertical pocket which is often neutral or slightly forward, the inserts are quite large and the insert geometry is negative (I assume the pocket axial rake) to positive at the outer insert edge on some types. This allows you to flip the insert. If you review the different face mills on the Haas site they give a description of the properties, applications, and toolpath types. I would start out with the type of materials you plan to be using it on, the DOC required per path, if you plan to just surface or ramp into the work, surface finish characteristics and the cutting requirements. Then choose an insert type/coating that will operate in a range of materials and give a good surface finish.

You then get into the insert geometry which can also be positive, neutral or negative, chip breaker, coatings, molded vs. ground, etc. Generally there are guidance's with regard to the types of materials and cutting parameters. With face mills they typically tell you the application that they work in and the matching insert, granted it is not possible to run them anywhere near there specifications both in RPM and feed, so you are more interested in an all around performing head.

I surfaced the front and back 3" jaws on my vice with the Haas and the finish I would rate as very good with no ridges or cross cutting from the inserts. Yeah, disco lighting, only shows up when taking pictures. Between the back light bar and ring quill light I do not get any shadows on my work which use to drive me nuts (or more crazy).
Vise Jaws.jpg
 

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davidpbest

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Thank you! Yes, it is geared head so now I know what size.


Gak! Please explain "insert seat pocket more vertical". The I've got the concept of negative vs positive (and shear angle), but "insert seat pocket"?

I've seen those octo mill heads and wondered about them. I get my end mills from Sun coast, thanks for the tip.
Here's a video that might help a bit understanding the rake angle Mark was mentioning (toward the end of the video). This is the Haas 4" face mill with the octagon style inserts on 6061 aluminum.

https://flic.kr/p/2kPkHJr
And this is the Haas 2" face mill that accepts their rectangular inserts that illustrates the difference is proportions of that insert compared to a standard APKT - they are much thicker and have slightly different rake geometry. This particular insert is the version for stainless steel.


50941024102_1d6ee1db6c_k.jpg
 

Brento

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Following bc i am also interested in finding a Face Mill that wont cost a fortune for my 8530 mill. Would like to also get like a 5/8 indexable EM as well
 

Ianagos

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I have PM833T mill (2 hp) and am starting to look at indexable face mills. I'll use it primarily on mild steel for stock removal and can switch to a fly cutter for finish work if needed. I'm waffling between the 2" to 3" sizes, and leaning toward odd number of flutes. The Glacern FM45-250 has been mentioned several times in the past and wondered if it's still a favored brand on this site or if I need to check out other makes. Thanks all.

I haven’t read the whole discussion but I will later.

But I highly recommend a us company like maritool over an importer such as glacern.

Last I checked maritool facemills are not much more money but they are made in the US and the owner is a great guy.
 

macmccaskie

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David, mksj "Disco": Thanks all for the assistance, I was not planning on spending as much as I'm about to, but I'm about to order the 2.5" HS6NP and a pack a inserts, plus to sun coast for the arbor and figure out the bolt issue when it gets here. I got to looking at the surface quality of those video's David's put out and started drooling. It will probably replace the import 2" APTK mill I have. I looked at the Glacern long enough to realize they don't publish any spec's, plus the unanswered email, and decided it wasn't for me. Ha, I keep trying to remind myself I'm about to retire and need to stick with what toys I already have, but just can't - maybe there's a support group for that?

Those inserts are massive, and not really a too bad price for what they are.

again, thanks
 

mksj

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Great size face mill for your machine and with 5 cutters, 6 cutting edges and 2 sets in a box of ten you should be good for a long time. Love David's picture showing the insert comparison, the inserts are massive in comparison to other ones I have. Sometimes it is better to spend a bit more and buy once, than buy multiple times and never be quite happy with the results.

Make sure to get an arbor bolt.
 

ttabbal

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I'm considering the 2.5" HS6NP as well on a Bridgeport. What insert type are you using most? I'd like to avoid stocking many types. I'll mostly be using this for squaring stock and finish passes. I usually work with mild steels like 1018 or 304 stainless and aluminum. I was considering the polished HN25 even though it's speced for aluminum. I figured the low hours I put on the tool would likely have them hold up well.

Does the tool come with insert screws? I see HAAS sells them.
 
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