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[Lathe] Fanuc OT to DC_CNC conversion

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JimDawson

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#1
As many of you know we picked up a Hardinge Conquest 42 CNC lathe. It has a Fanuc OT controller, about a 1988 vintage.

1517946281413.png

It lacks a lot of capabilities that we would like, has some odd quirks, and the biggest problem is the lack of memory for loading G code programs from modern CAM software. Also we are not able to work on CAD/CAM on the machine computer. So the logical answer is to just simply upgrade the computer system to something more modern. So we will be installing a Core i7 computer, a Galil motion controller, a 27 inch monitor, and my CNC software. If one were to buy all of the hardware new, the total cost would be ~$7000 for the upgrade. The good news is that I have the parts on the shelf that I normally paid very little for so the total out-of-pocket will be <$1000

The machine is a 3 axis, X, Z, and Spindle, plus the live tooling drive and the 10 position tool turret. So that means a total of 5 axes to control. I was surprised to find the the turret is also servo controlled, I thought it was hydraulic rotated. The hydraulics only operates the locking mechanism.

With minimal documentation this is going to be a bit of a challenge, but doable. The first order of business is to identify all of the I/O points that are needed to run the machine and create an I/O map to be able to determine the requirements of the I/O.

We expect that we'll be making chips again in about a week.

So here are the before pictures.

Computer
1517946499855.png


Cable connector block
1517946546923.png

A little wider view
1517946586383.png

Existing operator panel
1517946634619.png

The main electrical cabinet
1517946700577.png

And the I/O blocks on the door
1517946755369.png

So the challenge is to figure out what each I/O point is connected to and decide what is actually needed and what needs to connect back to the new computer. Most of the controlled devices (contactors, valves, etc.) are 100VAC (yes, 100VAC) and are switched by the relays. The other board is the inputs from limit switches and sensors that are 24VDC.

Gonna be a fun project :grin: .....Stay tuned.......
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cs900

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#3
yeah! and within a week? you're a machine!
 

JimDawson

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#4
Spent the day removing the original computer and a whole bunch of cables and configuring the new computer.

Here are a few pictures of the progress

The terminal unit has been removed
1518058284404.png

Operator panel, and computer removed
1518058408813.png

An empty computer cabinet. New board mounting plate installed on the door. Needed parts ordered today, they should be here Friday if everything goes well.
1518058562757.png

Had to do a little surgery on the new computer case, was just a bit big to fit the way we wanted.
1518058650503.png

And the new computer. It was still updating last time I looked.:rolleyes: I'll get the needed software, Galil cards, and drivers installed tonight. Galil cards, plural because I only had 4 and 1 axis cards on hand, so to drive 5 axes, I need to install 2 Galil cards. I've done this before so I know it works. I only need coordinated motion for 3 axes, so I can get away with a orphan card.

1518059009019.png

Still have a few cables hanging out of the electrical cabinet, I'll remove the unneeded ones when I get it all figured out.

1518059750320.png

As it turns out, it seems that the motor encoders do not connect to the servo drives, they went straight to the computer. This is a good thing, that means they will connect directly to the Galil card which is my prefered method. What I can't exactly figure out is how the servos are commutated without any feedback, must be using some type of sensorless vector control. The input the Fanuc drives is just a normal +/- 10V analog command signal.

The new software is coming along, I'll post a screenshot in a few days.

More later........ :)
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rgray

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#5
I'm anxious to see this up and running. Should be a nice improvement.
 

Karl_T

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#6
Are you able to re use the Fanuc servo drives???

I have a Vectrax CNC mill with a Fanuc 0M control that is flakey at best. If I don't have to buy new servo drives, I'd drop in a new control in a heart beat. If you do not remember, I also use Galil cards. The only way to fly if you want a great machine.
 

JimDawson

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#7
Are you able to re use the Fanuc servo drives???

I have a Vectrax CNC mill with a Fanuc 0M control that is flakey at best. If I don't have to buy new servo drives, I'd drop in a new control in a heart beat. If you do not remember, I also use Galil cards. The only way to fly if you want a great machine.
That is a really good question. As far as I can tell, the drives take a standard +/- 10V analog input, and the encoders connect to the motion controller. The drives themselves do not seem to require any encoder feedback. The encoders are standard RS422 5V output with index pulse, so connecting to the Galil should be straight forward. Then it's just a matter of tuning......I hope.

The exception to this seems to be the spindle drive which has a dual encoders, one of which is external and is connected back to the drive for rotational orientation. In this case my plan is to use the existing external spindle encoder for the feedback to the Galil. One odd thing is that the spindle drive seems to be controlled by a 0-10V signal and the direction is controlled by an input, but according to the documentation that I can find, the drive will accept a +/- 10V command signal.

I should have a good handle on it by Monday because my plan it to have this running by Wednesday. :cautious:
 

Karl_T

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#8
Great, you are on the bleeding edge here. Yep, i can get mine running by Wed. also, just a Wed. in 2019. :)

I will follow extremely close here. When you get there, i got a great Galil JOG routine. Also a beautiful two line G76 written in Camosft but fairly easy to replace Camosft with native Galil.
 

countryguy

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#9
AMAZING stuff.... The Kid and I are eyeballing this one close too. We keep looking to get a CNC lathe... And I do find deals listed as 'does not run- bad-controller'. This would be perfect for us. Thanks for the awesome work you do! Wednesday huh. A few by Thomas Edison came to mind and I think many of us know this already!

Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration.

Many of life's failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up.
 

JimDawson

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#10
Well things are not going according to plan :mad:

It turns out that 2 of the servo drives require a PWM sine wave input for the speed and position control. This is a Fanuc proprietary thing and the drive MUST be connected to a Fanuc controller for this command signal to be generated and I haven't been able to find a work around. :rolleyes:

So....we have decided to rip out the Fanuc drives and motors and repower the whole machine. Right now, it looks like DMM servos are the top candidate. http://www.dmm-tech.com These will work for the axis and turret drives.

The spindle drive is a whole 'nuther problem, 7.5 KW, that's an expensive servo. I think first I'm going to hang a sensorless vector VFD w/encoder feedback on the spindle motor and see if it will run it. I submitted a tech support request to Automation Direct asking their opinion about using one of their GS3 VFDs on a servo motor, I haven't heard back yet. This would be stupidly simple if we didn't need spindle indexing, but from what I saw when the lathe was running the spindle couldn't figure out where it was anyway.

I've done a little research on running Permanent Magnet AC motors on VFDs and it seems to be somewhat common. Both Baldor and Marathon make standard frame PM 3 phase motors for applications requiring higher efficiency. As it stands right now I am not 100% sure the spindle motor is a PM motor. I'll figure that out for sure in the morning. If it's not, then I know a VFD will run it.

I haven't even thought about the live tooling drive motor, but that's just a 3 HP motor. No problem there, and worst case, it's drive takes a standard analog input for the motor command.

Anyway, it's obvious that it's not running yet and I've missed my target date by a mile. :confused:

More later....
 

rgray

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#11
Down the rabbit hole.
I have faith you'll get it going.
From what I've seen as far as prices on that used fanuc stuff you should be able to recoup alot of the expense of the conversion
by selling the used parts.
 

JimDawson

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#12
Well I determined that the 7.5 KW spindle motor is in fact a standard(ish) 3 phase motor so a VFD will run it just fine. I did hear back from Automation Direct they said '' The GS3 is designed for continuous velocity operation with 3-phase induction type motors. It cannot perform positioning movements.'' We'll see about that. :cautious:

I removed all of the servo motors today, that was a pretty major job. It was like working on a late model car, pretty tight in there and lots of sheet metal to remove. I'll get the new motors and drives ordered tomorrow.
 

JimDawson

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#13
I spent most of the last few days tracing wires, pulling old cables out, working up a BOM, and creating an I/O map and a schematic.

About the only thing that's left in the power cabinet is the contactors for the hydraulic and coolant pumps, 3 breakers, and a few odds & ends. I removed everything that said Fanuc on it.:) Going to add in the control power and E-stop relays, and a breaker and contactor for each of the servo drives.

As of yesterday the new servos and drives are on order, unknown delivery time, but are in stock and coming out of Vancouver, BC. So maybe 3 or 4 days.

4) 1.8 KW servo motors for the axes and live tooling.
4) DYN4 240V servo amps (drives)
From DMM Technology

The spindle VFD is a GS3 10 HP from Automation Direct. Should be here tomorrow.

This is just one pile of cables :grin: I've added to it since this picture was taken.

1519170638296.png
 

JimDawson

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#14
Well things are going to start moving again, the servo motors and drives came in yesterday and I have some time to work on the lathe. I have a whole pile of parts to install. Should keep me busy for the next couple of days.

Pictures to follow....stay tuned. :)

Christmas in March :)

The new drive system parts overview

1520017914802.png

Dyn4 drives from DMM Technologies 240V, 30 Amp

1520018045727.png


Axis, tool turret, and live tooling servos. From DMM Technologies, 1.8 KW. A bit more power than the original motors.

1520018353629.png

The drive breakers, contactors, control power & E-stop relays from Automation Direct
1520018180503.png

10HP GS3 spindle drive VFD from Automation Direct
1520018302354.png

Now comes the fun, installing all of this stuff. Gonna be busy for a bit. :)
 
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Boswell

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#15
Nice bunch of kit.
 

Karl_T

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#16
Looks like you are going top shelf. I plan to copy you for my mill. But only after you know all the gotchas :)

Was the servos a one time deal, or can I look at buying them for my mill?

Am I correct that a galil card is still at the heart of your control?


BTW, I originally used that exact 10 hp GS3 drive on my Hardinge CHNC. Turns out it has a three phase detection circuit I couldn't beat. I wanted to run the lathe on 220 single phase. Automation direct was great. They took it back and sold me a GS2 unit.
 

JimDawson

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#17
I hope the DMM servos work out OK. I have heard good things about them, so I went that way. The DMM is going to be my go to servo vendor if I'm happy, I have to say that DMM tech support was very responsive to the couple of pre-purchase questions I had. We'll see how the after sale support is if I need it. It was nice to pick up the phone and actually have someone on the other end that actually spoke English (well, Canadian anyway, 'eh :) )

I'm thinking about replacing the steppers on my router with servos also. Equivalent servos and drives actually cost less than I paid for my steppers and drives. The other reason that I went with the DMM rather than ClearPath is that the DMM drives will accept both analog and step & direction and allow you to close the loop at the controller. Not possible with the ClearPath units.

Yes, the Galil is the heart of my controller. I'm modifying my software to run the lathe as well as mills and routers. My software will now do full 4 axis machining. In its current form it's running well on 3 machines, 2 mills and my router. The code for rigid tapping is written, but not yet tested. When that is completed, it will work on both a lathe and a mill.
 

Karl_T

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#18
Just FYI, I use galil electronic gearing for rigid tapping and gear hobbing on my CNC mill. It has run flawlessly for years. This approach did NOT work on my lathe. The difference is speed. need on a lathe is to thread at 1000 or even higher RPM.

Lathe approach was first a high speed index mark. used a slot sensor to a high speed opto 22 input. Got response in the area of a few 10EE-6 seconds. Several revolutions are first sampled to accurately determine RPM. Then the X axis is fired on the index mark to move at the calculated feed rate. With this approach total control of a G76 thread cycle works wonders. I had over a month's work just making this thread cycle run.
 

JimDawson

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#19
Got a little more work done. This is the servo drive panel. All four servo drives, breakers, contactors, and other parts all fit in about the same footprint as one of the original drives. Aint modern electronics great :grin: Now I just have to wire up the control power and E-stop relays (the 4 ice cube relays) and the panel will be ready to install.

There's about 8 hours of wiring time in this one.
1520182530675.png
 

rgray

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#20
Whew....Looks awesome. Very anxious to see it run as I'm sure you are.
 

Boswell

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#21
it's looking great Jim.
 

JimDawson

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#22
Another update. The servo panel is now installed and a bunch of other wiring done.

The before pic
1521153267300.png
and after. Still need to do some wiring cleanup. At this point I have re-wired the entire machine, none of the original control wiring exists, only the power components remain the same.
1521153366826.png

I could actually run the spindle motor right now, but not quite ready for that yet.

The X axis servo setting in place just to check fit and cable length.
1521153796941.png

Have a few blinky lights powered up, another couple dozen wires to land on this panel then I can button it up. All that's left is the control and encoder wiring to the servo drives and the control power and e-stop buttons. All of the other I/O wiring is complete. Waiting on the cables for the encoders and servo controls, I screwed up and ordered the wrong ones, so I won't have the new ones until early next week.

1521154048019.png

Hopefully I'll start turning the wheels next week. :)
 

Karl_T

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#23
Looking GREAT. Once you prove this equipment out, I want to do one.


Just remember the engineer's project time rule:

the first 90% of the project takes 90% of the time

the last 10% of the project takes the other 90% of the time
 

Boswell

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#24
Jim, what a major project. Your wiring looks great.
 

JimDawson

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#25
Jim, what a major project. Your wiring looks great.

Thank you. It did turn into a bit more of a project than I intended in the beginning.
 

woodchucker

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#26
well , now that you bought the Hass, what's going to happen with this? Are you going to finish it?
Congrats on the Haas. I hope you finish this project.
 

JimDawson

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well , now that you bought the Hass, what's going to happen with this? Are you going to finish it?
Congrats on the Haas. I hope you finish this project.
Thank you.

Absolutely the lathe is going to get finished. In fact it's nearing completion, I've spent the day running and terminating the control and encoder cables for the servo drives. About all that's left to do is wire in the push buttons for the control power and E-stop systems, and clean up a few odds & ends. Then I can turn power on and get the servo motors under control before I connect them mechanically to the machine.

After that comes the real fun, getting the software to actually run the machine. I think what I have written will work, but there is always debugging to do. :)
 

JimDawson

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#28
An update:

The lathe is coming along, I haven't posted much because nothing too visually interesting is happening, just connecting a lot of little wires. What fun is a post without interesting pictures? :)

Saturday and Sunday was spent proving out all of the power systems and hydraulics. One milestone was met last evening, I have one of the servo motors under control of the Galil card. Took a bit to learn how to do it, I've never used DMM drives before and some of the control is not totally intuitive. I could have done it quicker but I was running a job on the mill and helping install the new Haas mill at the same time. The spindle motor will be fired up tomorrow when I get the comm cable from Automation Direct.

I'll get the other 3 servos bench tuned today. I expect that by the end of the week all of the electrical systems and servos will be installed, operational, and under computer control. Then comes the software debugging process. :faint:

Stay tuned.......... Chips coming soon. :grin:
 

JimDawson

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#29
IT'S ALIVE !!!!! :grin: All of the servos are installed and under computer control. Everything moves as planned.

Here is the Z motor mount my son built to adapt the new servo motor.
1523064789019.png

And the last servo to be installed, the Z axis.
1523064812679.png

And the wide view, looking at the spindle motor, and the back of the spindle with the collet closer
1523064989872.png

Then one of the most important systems on the machine.......
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The stereo system ( above the monitor ) :grin: (the box between the speakers will house the USB ports, not installed yet)
1523065132660.png

And a video of the turret rotating, not much going on here, but at least it works. :)
 

countryguy

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#30
...and you have lost what... 20Lbs? so cool! Thanks for alyway's posting just great material and picks! No clue how you find the time.
Jeff and Mitch.
 
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