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Finally got Logan/ MW 2136 Home

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John TV

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#1
Hello All,
Months ago, I posted a few pictures of a old 1948 MW lathe my father -in-law had in his garage, has not run in more than 30 years.

Finally got the chance to get it home and have not completely set it up yet but I am noticing a lot of backlash in the Cross Feed and Compound Feed Screws/nuts ( I mean like 60 thousandths in the cross feed).

Just a very beginning newbie in this hobby and thinking I should just break down and get the new parts, around $440 dollars, and start on a machine that is relatively accurate as opposed to trying to learn to machine the parts myself as a early project. I am curious as to what some of you with lots of experience think. I would rather spend that money on tooling etc. if possible but don't want to get ahead of myself.

Second Part of the question. I am assuming the feed nuts have most of the wear. I was surprised to find the cross feed nut appears to be cast iron as apposed to bronze or brass. Would it be prudent to just replace the cross feed and compound nuts first (about a $100 investment) and see how much it improves the backlash and then replace the screws if necessary... or is that penny wise and pound foolish?

Thanks for your thoughts. Pictures of the lathe are on a earlier post back in December.

JohnView media item 95203
 

wa5cab

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#2
I don't know about cast iron versus brass but on the Atlas machines (brass nuts), the cross feed screw, at least if oiled regularly, typically outlives two or three nuts.

But I wanted to add one other thing. I am not sure how it is adjusted (I think I recall that it is adjustable) but there are two sources of apparent backlash in the cross and compound feeds. One is wear on the nut and screw threads. The other is end float in the screw. Crank the carriage off the rear end of the screw first (some compounds you can't do that on) and adjust the screw bearings until you can just feel the drag. If it isn't adjustable on your model machine, buy some bearing shims of the proper diameter and install as many of them as you can.
 

Uglydog

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#3
John TV,
I live near the Anoka area and work in Inver Grove Heights.
I did a rebuild on a 1947 MW so I have an idea of what you have.
I'm certainly no expert but as a HM supporter you are welcome in my shop, coffee is hot and strong, very strong.
Additionally, if you'd like I might be able to stop by and give you some ideas.
Warning: I'm an old iron guy. I'd start with the MW learn some stuff and then consider an upgrade if she doesn't do what you need her to do.
My lil MW 10" taught me alot!!

Give a shout should you want assist. I'll attempt to give you as much or as little as you'd like.
Similarly we have many very active and honest HM members who might be able to stop by and help get you started.

Daryl
MN
 
Last edited:

Uglydog

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#4
Also, you might find this fun!!

Daryl
MN
 

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T. J.

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#5
John,

I have the same machine. The nuts on mine are cast iron as well. As you've probably noticed, the new ones that Logan sells are brass. I think in your situation, I would start with just replacing the cross feed nut. Then get yourself tooled up and see how it goes. If the backlash is still a problem, you can replace the screw later. I wouldn't worry about the compound initially, as you won't be using it as much as the cross slide.

Enjoy your new machine!
 

John TV

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#6
John TV,
I live near the Anoka area and work in Inver Grove Heights.
I did a rebuild on a 1947 MW so I have an idea of what you have.
I'm certainly no expert but as a HM supporter you are welcome in my shop, coffee is hot and strong, very strong.
Additionally, if you'd like I might be able to stop by and give you some ideas.
Warning: I'm an old iron guy. I'd start with the MW learn some stuff and then consider an upgrade if she doesn't do what you need her to do.
My lil MW 10" taught me alot!!

Give a shout should you want assist. I'll attempt to give you as much or as little as you'd like.
Similarly we have many very active and honest HM members who might be able to stop by and help get you started.

Daryl
MN
Thanks Daryl,
I live on strong coffee. I would most appreciate meeting you getting your advice in the future. Give me a little time to get this old girl in place and leveled,which might take me a week or two, then I will give you a shout if that offer still stands. We are not far apart at all. The PDF is really great. I did not have that brochure. I do have the original manual but this helps me to figure out what I have.
 
M

Mister Ed

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#7
For the float (end play) in the screws, the nut that sits between the dial and handle can be snugged up to remove this. You might have to loosed the set screw in the graduated dial as well. You cannot go too tight or it will be too hard to turn.

All that being said, I am presuming the setup is the same as a Logan 200 ... and I am going off memory since I sold mine Friday.
 

John TV

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#8
I don't know about cast iron versus brass but on the Atlas machines (brass nuts), the cross feed screw, at least if oiled regularly, typically outlives two or three nuts.

But I wanted to add one other thing. I am not sure how it is adjusted (I think I recall that it is adjustable) but there are two sources of apparent backlash in the cross and compound feeds. One is wear on the nut and screw threads. The other is end float in the screw. Crank the carriage off the rear end of the screw first (some compounds you can't do that on) and adjust the screw bearings until you can just feel the drag. If it isn't adjustable on your model machine, buy some bearing shims of the proper diameter and install as many of them as you can.

Thanks for the advice. I will check to see if there is adjustment. May be old question to some, but where does one get bearing shims? See, told you I was a newbie
 

John TV

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#9
John,

I have the same machine. The nuts on mine are cast iron as well. As you've probably noticed, the new ones that Logan sells are brass. I think in your situation, I would start with just replacing the cross feed nut. Then get yourself tooled up and see how it goes. If the backlash is still a problem, you can replace the screw later. I wouldn't worry about the compound initially, as you won't be using it as much as the cross slide.

Enjoy your new machine!

thanks TJ. I think that is great advice. Looking forward to getting it set up and leveled.
 

John TV

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#10
For the float (end play) in the screws, the nut that sits between the dial and handle can be snugged up to remove this. You might have to loosed the set screw in the graduated dial as well. You cannot go too tight or it will be too hard to turn.

All that being said, I am presuming the setup is the same as a Logan 200 ... and I am going off memory since I sold mine Friday.
thank you Mr. Ed
I will give that a try. I am having a bit of trouble with that dial set screw too. It seems it must have rusted into place, doing the soak, heat, soak, heat program to try to get it to free up. No luck so far but, still patient.
 

Chuck K

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#11
I don't think shims are going to be of any use for your situation. As has been said, adjust the 2 nuts at the handle to take out as much slop as you can without making it hard to turn. As for the cross slide screw... take the screw out and turn the nut on it all the way up the length checking the fit in different areas as you go. It's obviously going to have some wear on it but if it's fairly consistent your nut is probably causing most of the backlash. Honestly 0.060 isn't going to stop you from making good parts. As long as you keep your gib snugged up and always take up the slack before starting your cut it shouldn't be an issue. I advocate making some chips with a machine and getting to know it before throwing a bunch of money at it.
 

Uglydog

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#12
I agree with Chuck K.
And we may able to find you some affordable acme thread and make a nut. If that's what is needed.
One step at a time.
First get her leveled in plane.

Daryl
MN
 

wa5cab

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#13
I guess that I was thinking about a different badge. I keep an eye on more than a dozen fora, and the last time someone had this problem, the adjustment wasn't made by differential adjustment of a nut between the crank and the bushing that the dial runs on. Must not have been a Logan. The Atlas machines have a nut that holds the crank on the screw and a nut between the crank and the dial bushing. And end float adjustments are made by loosening the crank nut, adjusting the 2nd nut, tightening the crank nut, and turning the crank to check the end float. Repeat until force required to turn the crank becomes noticeable. If you can't get the thumb nut that holds the dial loose, that shouldn't affect whether or not you can adjust the end float. The dial lock should be independent of that because the screw in the dial is used to zero the dial whenever you need to, independent of where the crank is.

It sounds like your machine has the end float adjustment nut, but if you ever do need small shims, I usually get them from McMaster. RAF Parts is another possibility. But I usually default to McMaster because they have so many other things.
 
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Mister Ed

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#14
If you can't get the thumb nut that holds the dial loose, that shouldn't affect whether or not you can adjust the end float. The dial lock should be independent of that because the screw in the dial is used to zero the dial whenever you need to, independent of where the crank is.
We are not talking about a "thumb nut", we are talking about a set screw in the graduated dial that holds the dial firm to the crossfeed or compound screw. Tightening the adjustment nut against the dial will do nothing, if the set screw is not loose so the dial can move on the cross feed screw to remove the slack.

Below is a diagram from a Logan 200, but all of the smaller and earlier Logan mfg lathes (I believe) were pretty much the same. Basically with set screw 0431 loosened and tightening the nut behind the handle, you are reducing the distance between the graduated dial (171) and the gear on the inside (190). Logan used the dial (171) and the gear (190) as thrust surfaces against 172. Too tight and the assembly will be too difficult to turn, too loose and more slop, float, endplay you will have.

Compound screw is similar. No gear, but has a slight flange on the acme screw.

I was always going to retrofit a bearing on either side of 172 to allow the components to be pretty snug and still turn.
Capture.JPG
 

Chuck K

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#15
Hopefully there is a brass slug under that set screw to protect the shaft.
 
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Mister Ed

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#16
Chuck -
I have never seen one listed in parts diagrams or on the two older model lathes I have messed with (not counting the new one). I would have to think all the early 9"-11" were probably pretty much the same. Not sure off the top of my head when they switched to a different (larger) dial design ... 1800 - 1900 series?
 

Chuck K

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#17
I would put one in regardless. Without it the shaft gets all scored up. I like to adjust those so they are tight enough to turn along with the handle but still free enough that you can zero it at any time. Once the set screw has bitten into the shaft a few times it's all but impossible to have it turn smoothly when you want to adjust it to zero.
 

wa5cab

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#18
I agree on the brass or lead plug.

Over the past few years, I have looked at a lot of lathe and mill assembly drawings and these is the first ones that I recall seeing where the cross feed screw thrust was taken against the dia and its set screw. Every other one I recall seeing had a bushing or shoulder bushing that the dial ran on. So that when taking heavy cuts, the reaction thrust wasn't taken against the dial (with the friction component trying to turn the dial).

But to get back to the original question about backlash in the cross feed screw (and ignoring the fact that there is no reason to let that backlash actually affect the accuracy of the work). I don't recall a case where part of the backlash wasn't due to excessive feed screw end float.
 
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Mister Ed

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#20
That was a good write up Daryl, I had not see that one before.

After reading it, I realized that the idea I had for the thrust bearings in the carriage came from another of Bob's articles.
 

mrbreezeet1

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#21
Hello All,
Months ago, I posted a few pictures of a old 1948 MW lathe my father -in-law had in his garage, has not run in more than 30 years.

Finally got the chance to get it home and have not completely set it up yet but I am noticing a lot of backlash in the Cross Feed and Compound Feed Screws/nuts ( I mean like 60 thousandths in the cross feed).

Just a very beginning newbie in this hobby and thinking I should just break down and get the new parts, around $440 dollars, and start on a machine that is relatively accurate as opposed to trying to learn to machine the parts myself as a early project. I am curious as to what some of you with lots of experience think. I would rather spend that money on tooling etc. if possible but don't want to get ahead of myself.

Second Part of the question. I am assuming the feed nuts have most of the wear. I was surprised to find the cross feed nut appears to be cast iron as apposed to bronze or brass. Would it be prudent to just replace the cross feed and compound nuts first (about a $100 investment) and see how much it improves the backlash and then replace the screws if necessary... or is that penny wise and pound foolish?

Thanks for your thoughts. Pictures of the lathe are on a earlier post back in December.

JohnView media item 95203
84TLC 2136 right.
Mine is the same year I think.
Hello All,
Months ago, I posted a few pictures of a old 1948 MW lathe my father -in-law had in his garage, has not run in more than 30 years.

Finally got the chance to get it home and have not completely set it up yet but I am noticing a lot of backlash in the Cross Feed and Compound Feed Screws/nuts ( I mean like 60 thousandths in the cross feed).

Just a very beginning newbie in this hobby and thinking I should just break down and get the new parts, around $440 dollars, and start on a machine that is relatively accurate as opposed to trying to learn to machine the parts myself as a early project. I am curious as to what some of you with lots of experience think. I would rather spend that money on tooling etc. if possible but don't want to get ahead of myself.

Second Part of the question. I am assuming the feed nuts have most of the wear. I was surprised to find the cross feed nut appears to be cast iron as apposed to bronze or brass. Would it be prudent to just replace the cross feed and compound nuts first (about a $100 investment) and see how much it improves the backlash and then replace the screws if necessary... or is that penny wise and pound foolish?

Thanks for your thoughts. Pictures of the lathe are on a earlier post back in December.

JohnView media item 95203

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mrbreezeet1

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#22
John,

I have the same machine. The nuts on mine are cast iron as well. As you've probably noticed, the new ones that Logan sells are brass. I think in your situation, I would start with just replacing the cross feed nut. Then get yourself tooled up and see how it goes. If the backlash is still a problem, you can replace the screw later. I wouldn't worry about the compound initially, as you won't be using it as much as the cross slide.

Enjoy your new machine!
You took the cross slide off, and looked at the nut I gather, right?
If I'm remembering right, there was a Phillips screw holding the "cross nut" is it called?
Well the screw was pretty loose, tightening the screw took most of the backs out.
Of course sounds like you did have it apart.
Nice little lathe, for what I do.
Id like to find some kegs and a chip pan.
It's on a shop made stand.


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John TV

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#23
Sorry to take so long to respond. I don't get much time on the computer these days. I appreciate your thoughts, I have had it apart but did not pay much attention to the screw holding the nut. I will check that out. I hope I can get the machine leveled and start learning soon.
 

Chuck K

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#24
Id like to find some kegs and a chip pan.
It's on a shop made stand.

If you drink the "kegs" you probably won't even care about a chip pan anymore.
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mrbreezeet1

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#25
Yeah, stupid auto correct.

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John TV

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#26
Ok, so finally had a chance to do something. Given my lack of experience and tools, I took a fairly easy way out of this set screw problem until I can either buy or make more of the parts. Taking the advice to start making chips before spending too much money.

I filled the chowderd up holes with jb weld mixed with steel filings on both the shaft and the collar. I then drilled and tapped a new 8 x 32 thread hole on a different plane on the collar to not have the new set screw hitting the jb weld area. I am just using plastic thumb screws until I can machine some brass ones hopefully in the near future.

This machine came with set screws and I will use them when needed but thought thumb screws would be more convenient most of the time.

I still have a great deal of backlash even after adjusting the end float as suggested so think I will try replacing the nut first and see how that goes. Now I have about 55 thousands backlash a little better than it was.

I appreciate all the great advice you all gave me. Now to rewire the lathe so it is grounded and then get it leveled up. I hope to be making chips soon.


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wa5cab

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#27
Yes, 55 thou of back lash does sound like a worn cross feed nut and maybe screw. Run the cross slide nut to the rear until only two of three screw threads are sticking out of the nut and check back lash again. If it is the same, then all of your wear is in the nut. If it is only a few thou less, then most of the wear is in the nut. If it is significantly less, you also need to replace the screw.
 

John TV

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#28
Thanks, I'll check that out tonight after work. Hoping the nut is the main problem since it's a relatively cheap fix. Need to build my my skill set up a bit before I try something like a lead screw.


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John TV

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#29
Just a note to say Yeah! Lathe is finally leveled and working and actually made a few chips tonight. I'm not sure how to type the words that Tim the tool man grunted, but I'm loving it. I really need to replace the cross feed nut and maybe screw but it's still awesome. Now my real learning begins as I could not know much less than I do. Let the journey and mistakes and smiles begin. Again thanks for all your help.


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Mister Ed

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#30
Great to hear John!! You will surprise yourself in no time. Plenty of videos on Youtube ... you just need to wade through the bunk.
 
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