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G0602 cross-slide gib adjustment/installation after 6-bolt compound mod?

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dewbane

Michael McIntyre
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#1
I just finished doing a 6-bolt compound mod on my g0602 using the ready-made kit on offer from Belfanti Machine Works. The installation went very well, but reassembly hasn't gone as smoothly. After I put everything back together, I have to keep the gib screws extremely loose to allow the cross-slide to travel. They are much too loose, and any gains I got from the 6-bolt mod are canceled by the new slop in the cross-slide.

I already went back to the drawing board once, to make sure I had the gib installed correctly. I did not, in fact. I missed getting the adjuster pin into the slot the first time. now that I have corrected that, getting the cross-slide back on is much easier, but I still have the binding issue. I don't see how I could have bent the gib, but maybe I did. It also has a rough patch one one end. I originally chalked this up to the condensation-related corrosion problem I've been fighting, but it later hit me that I'm probably looking at scale that wasn't ground off, and the gib probably has a big low spot right there.

Maybe there's some trick to this I'm missing, like tightening the gib screws in a certain order or something. Maybe I need to read up on scraping my ways. I'm really not sure where to go from here, and I thought I'd ask for advice from more experienced folks. This is the first metal lathe I've ever handled, and I haven't had it very long.
 

Ray C

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#2
I'm not familiar with your lathe. In cases like this, some pictures really help.

Jib screws usually have a small lock nut to set the position for final assembly. First, take off the little nuts, insert the set screws and lightly tighten them up evenly. Then start backing off all of them (evenly) until the mechanism moves freely. If that solves the problem, put the lock nuts on and do your best at holding each screw from turning while lightly snugging the lock nut.

Ray
 

jwmelvin

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#3
I just went through my G0602 upon purchase (used). The gib screws are definitely sensitive to the final few degrees of tightening so maybe you just need to be careful about holding them with an Allen wrench as you snug the locknut? May also be worth lightly sanding the contact surfaces on something flat to make sure they are okay.
 
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#4
The original 2 bolt mount distorts the carriage when you tighten/overtighten the bolts. The 6 bolt plate doesn't do that (or very little) but your cross slide/gib might have worn in its old position.
Are there shiny spots on the gib? If you have a surface plate or something very flat such as glass plate or even thick MDF, sand the gib flat on emery cloth.
 

RJSakowski

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#5
I just finished doing a 6-bolt compound mod on my g0602 using the ready-made kit on offer from Belfanti Machine Works. The installation went very well, but reassembly hasn't gone as smoothly. After I put everything back together, I have to keep the gib screws extremely loose to allow the cross-slide to travel. They are much too loose, and any gains I got from the 6-bolt mod are canceled by the new slop in the cross-slide.

I already went back to the drawing board once, to make sure I had the gib installed correctly. I did not, in fact. I missed getting the adjuster pin into the slot the first time. now that I have corrected that, getting the cross-slide back on is much easier, but I still have the binding issue. I don't see how I could have bent the gib, but maybe I did. It also has a rough patch one one end. I originally chalked this up to the condensation-related corrosion problem I've been fighting, but it later hit me that I'm probably looking at scale that wasn't ground off, and the gib probably has a big low spot right there.

Maybe there's some trick to this I'm missing, like tightening the gib screws in a certain order or something. Maybe I need to read up on scraping my ways. I'm really not sure where to go from here, and I thought I'd ask for advice from more experienced folks. This is the first metal lathe I've ever handled, and I haven't had it very long.
The six bolt mod was patterned after the mod that I did. https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/improved-g0602-compound-clamp.34796/

If your cross slide was working well before the mod, it should be working now. It comes down to something in your machining process or your reassembly. I haven't looked critically at the Belafonti product but on mine, the four additional holes are drilled and tapped through. A burr on the bottom will ride on the cross slide ways and as you tighten the gib the slide is pushed into contact with the ways. A burr will cause friction. Another possibility is some debris on the surface causing the same effect.

The 602 has ground surface ways. Unless your way are completely worn, there should not be a need for scraping.
 

MSD0

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#6
I ran into the same thing after installing a solid tool post mount on my lathe. Make sure the bolts are evenly torqued and it should get easier with some use.
 

fitterman1

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#7
Hi Dewbane, I'd suggest measuring your crosslide ways with a mic and precision pins. This will tell you if there is a taper and you will have to adjust it by scraping so it is square to the spindle axis.
It should taper in as you machine towards the center to a value of around 0.0005" to achieve a concave depression.
Your gib should be near perfectly flat on the two sliding faces. Adjustment will be as mentioned by Ray C. Its a finicky thing to do, and should be set so its a smooth sliding action with minimum friction. Don't forget your way oil upon assembly. Use as much as you want. I put small recesses with my dremel where my adjusting screws contact, I find this better than a pin or screw in a notch. I also radiused the ends of my adjusting screws to match.
Cheers Alby
 
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Richard King 2

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#8
If you can't figure it out I know a retired machine rebuilder who lives outside of Christiansburg. Send me a private message and I'll give you him phone number. You may know him. His name is Roger P___-o
 

dewbane

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#9
https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/improved-g0602-compound-clamp.34796/That is probably what inspired me to do this mod. I had been planning it for some time when I stumbled across the commercial offering at LMS. I literally entered "g0602" into the search box by accident, and that popped up. I have enough projects to keep me busy for months without doing that mod from scratch, so I paid the convenience fee on that one.
If your cross slide was working well before the mod, it should be working now. It comes down to something in your machining process or your reassembly.
I guess I was looking for some repeatable procedure, like tighten the gibs in this order as tight as you can, then back them off this much. It seems to be much more nuanced than that. When I went out there to take the pictures, it seems better the third time I reassembled everything.

I haven't looked critically at the Belafonti product but on mine, the four additional holes are drilled and tapped through. A burr on the bottom will ride on the cross slide ways and as you tighten the gib the slide is pushed into contact with the ways. A burr will cause friction. Another possibility is some debris on the surface causing the same effect.
That's exactly what his instructions indicate. I didn't really see or feel a burr after drilling and tapping my through holes, but I skimmed the new holes with a countersink anyway.

The 602 has ground surface ways. Unless your way are completely worn, there should not be a need for scraping.
I've seen scraping come up a lot. This equipment is junk, because the ways aren't scraped, etc. I guess scraping is for machined ways. The ways do seem fine out of the box, and I'm not trying to hold much better than 0.010" tolerances on any of the stuff I'm making so far.
 

dewbane

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#10
Somebody asked for pictures, so I went out, disassembled and reassembled everything, taking pictures along the way.
 

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Richard King 2

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#11
You stoned everything right to knock off all the burrs? Im thinking if you did everything right on the slide then maybe the cross feed screw and nut are out of alignment. How about putting it back together, oil everything with way oil (vactra 2), do not put in the crossfeed feed screw in and adjust the gib so you can slide in a .0015" feeler gage between it and the top saddle/cross-slide ways. When I tighten a gib like that, I tighten outside screws first leaving the middle ones loose. Using the feeler gage so you have clearance (plus I will attach a You Tube on adjusting gib at end) Then just snug the middle one up. You look like a strong guy so be careful to not over tighten everything.

Then try to slide the cross slide by hand back and forth. It should push back and forth easy. with side gib screw nuts tight also.

Then pull the slide to the front or nearest to the operator. Leave feed screw nut snug so it can self align when you screw in the feed screw. With the slide still closest to you, screw in the feed screw in as far as it will go and it's bracket is up against the saddle. Then tighten up the bracket and brass feed nut. You may have to lift the bracket up a bit as gravity may make it drop a bit. Then it should be OK if that's the issue.

The scraping issue is what happens when you buy the inexpensive machines. Oh you can check the gib to see if its bent by laying it on a flat surface and use a small plastic hammer and tap on it all over. listen to hear if it slaps or open sound. If it is flat the noise will be solid sounding,can also see if you can slide in the feeler gage. Most gibs can be bent back as long as you don't push to hard. Try what I said and lets see if that helps. Rich

The You tube is on a bigger mill and has a tapered gib, but you can do it with the straight gib to on a lathe. Same principal.
It's better to have the gib looser on unscraped ways, so .0005" clearance per side of so oil can spread on both sides. Total of .001" to .0015. Push on it and let go and check the actual slop. You a strong guy and could bend it if you push to hard.
 
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TomS

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#12
fitterman1 said, "I put small recesses with my dremel where my adjusting screws contact, I find this better than a pin or screw in a notch. I also radiused the ends of my adjusting screws to match."

This is a good idea. An alternative approach is is put bearing balls of the appropriate size in the adjusting screw holes. Same effect as fitterman1's method. Helps to keep the gib from moving and rubbing on the top or bottom edges.

Edit - did this on my Grizzly G4000 years ago and the cross slide moved silky smooth.
 

RJSakowski

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#13
That is probably what inspired me to do this mod. I had been planning it for some time when I stumbled across the commercial offering at LMS. I literally entered "g0602" into the search box by accident, and that popped up. I have enough projects to keep me busy for months without doing that mod from scratch, so I paid the convenience fee on that one.
I guess I was looking for some repeatable procedure, like tighten the gibs in this order as tight as you can, then back them off this much. It seems to be much more nuanced than that. When I went out there to take the pictures, it seems better the third time I reassembled everything.



That's exactly what his instructions indicate. I didn't really see or feel a burr after drilling and tapping my through holes, but I skimmed the new holes with a countersink anyway.

I've seen scraping come up a lot. This equipment is junk, because the ways aren't scraped, etc. I guess scraping is for machined ways. The ways do seem fine out of the box, and I'm not trying to hold much better than 0.010" tolerances on any of the stuff I'm making so far.
The 602 has holes in the gib for engaging dowel pins so the recesses mentioned above shouldn't be necessary. My 602 (ca 2013) has four gib adjustment screws with the fourth located about an inch to the back of the middle screw. It is possible that it was intended for a cross slide lock but it has the same hardware as the other three. I noticed that there is a slight change in the gib adjustment as the compound clamp is tightened. In my case, the adjustment loosens with tightening of the clamp. This is expected as there is necessarily some upward pull on the cross slide which would lift the cross slide dovetail up and away form the saddle. My gib is adjusted with the clamp tightened.

How are the clamp studs secured in the cross slide? My compound clamp uses screws rather than studs so I don't have any issue with distortion due to jamming studs. If they are jammed into an incompletely threaded hole, they could be causing some local distortion which would greatly increase friction. Check for distortion by coating the saddle ways with layout blue or a Sharpie and sliding the cross slide on the saddle. Clean any oil off the saddle before a plying and wipe a thin coat of oil on the cross slide. Any shiny spots would indicate a high spot. If your stoning process to clean up any burrs was done before the studs were installed, you would miss this. Initially, try it without the gib. If no high spots are shown, install the gib and adjust and retry.
 

RJSakowski

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#14
I checked my 602 cross slide this afternoon. I have about .0003" of side play in the slde and it takes 28on. oz. of torque to move the cross slide This would translate to slightly less than 2 lbs. of force applied to the crank.
 

Silverbullet

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#15
I think I'd re stone them all over , and clean the poo out of it. Then load it with way oil and remount with the gib how Richard said. Then hook up after I'd get it sliding free. Only takes one tiny burr or chip.
 

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#16
The hole problem with this setup there is no dog leg turned on the screws and no mating holes drilled in the gib the setup is all wrong. I used to rebuild machines and never saw a setup like this no wonder you can't adjust the gibs.
 

RJSakowski

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#17
The hole problem with this setup there is no dog leg turned on the screws and no mating holes drilled in the gib the setup is all wrong. I used to rebuild machines and never saw a setup like this no wonder you can't adjust the gibs.
If you look at the photo ending 754, there are holes in the gib which are mated to pins. The setscrews seat the pins. Same effect as a dog point screw except the end isn't turning as you tighten the screw.
 

Kernbigo

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The hole problem with this setup there is no dog leg turned on the screws and no mating holes drilled in the gib the setup is all wrong. I used to rebuild machines and never saw a setup like this no wonder you can't adjust the gibs.
If you look at the photo ending 754, there are holes in the gib which are mated to pins. The setscrews seat the pins. Same effect as a dog point screw except the end isn't turning as you tighten the screw.
I still restful still say not the way to do it done it with dog.leg screws for 37 years and never had this problem .


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

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#19
For these small lathes I would think dogpoints with a radius filed on the contact end and a corresponding recess in the gib itself would have superior holding power as the force would be spread over all the adjusting screws.
Thats how I do it.
 
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T Bredehoft

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#20
Are we confusing dog leg and dog point?
 

dewbane

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#21
Are we confusing dog leg and dog point?
Yeah, I'm trying to visualize a screw with a dogleg and scratching my head. With apologies to artists everywhere:
dogleg.jpg
 

Richard King 2

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#22
LOL....I see your a sword or knife maker...as they say, don't quit your day job to become an artist. But, shoot what they seel some of those weird paintings you may get big bucks for you may become a Picasso on Hobby Machinist? We may need a new category "art, drawn by members" lol
 

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#23
I know this is an old post but I ran into a similar issue when installing the 6-bolt cross slide plate this weekend. I think I figured out what causes the heavy drag on the G0602 cross slide.
(The following numbers in parentheses refer to the Grizzly parts diagram.) When reinstalling the cross slide onto the saddle, don't tighten the two screws (907) on the leadscrew bracket (906) until you bring the cross slide as far out (toward you) as it will go. This ensures that the leadscrew (905) is aligned with the leadscrew nut as the bracket screws are tightened. I did this and the heavy drag went away.
 

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#24
A valid point by John above relating to alignment of drive spindles
 

dewbane

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LOL....I see your a sword or knife maker...as they say, don't quit your day job to become an artist. But, shoot what they seel some of those weird paintings you may get big bucks for you may become a Picasso on Hobby Machinist? We may need a new category "art, drawn by members" lol
You know what's funny? My wife left me, and after the skank was gone, I suddenly had a lot of empty wall space. I found an old painting of mine in the closet, and I decided to fill up the empty wall space by doing some new paintings. Check THIS out and tell me I'm not an artist!
 

dewbane

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#26
I know this is an old post but I ran into a similar issue when installing the 6-bolt cross slide plate this weekend. I think I figured out what causes the heavy drag on the G0602 cross slide.
(The following numbers in parentheses refer to the Grizzly parts diagram.) When reinstalling the cross slide onto the saddle, don't tighten the two screws (907) on the leadscrew bracket (906) until you bring the cross slide as far out (toward you) as it will go. This ensures that the leadscrew (905) is aligned with the leadscrew nut as the bracket screws are tightened. I did this and the heavy drag went away.
I'm going to go try this right now. I need to get back into this. I haven't done much shop work since my wife left (de-skanking my house and saving myself from bankruptcy has taken most of my time), but I finally got out there and took my lathe for a spin today. While parting off a 1" brass rod, the parting tool nose-dived so catastrophically I bent the rod. I could see the cross-slide and the compound both visibly deflecting by 1/64" or even more, and I had the gibs as tight as I could stand them being without it being ridiculously arduous to crank things around. Somethin' jist ain't right. Naw, that ain't gonna do it. Back to the drawing board adjusting all this stuff. Wowww.
 

dewbane

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#27
I think I figured out what causes the heavy drag on the G0602 cross slide.
I think you figured right. When I went back out there last night, I loosened all the gib adjustments, loosened those two bolts, then cranked the cross-slide until it was just shy of hitting the knob casting. I ran the gibs down really snug, then I tightened up the knob casting. After I backed off the gibs a little bit, I ended up with a smooth travel across 90% of the range of the cross-slide. I tweaked the height of all my quick change tools. They were all dead on at one time, but I had to raise all of them considerably to get them back into adjustment. Not sure if that's user error on my part or some setup issue. With the tools thus adjusted and the gibs tight, but not stupid tight, I finally got the lathe into a state where I can use a parting tool without any issues. I ran a few parts, and the cross-slide was better than it ever was. I'm giving most of the credit to your adjustment tweak idea. I think I must have had the screw slightly out of alignment with the nut ever since the lathe was new.

Incidentally, I lost my wife and will probably never know the company of a woman again, but I kept my house, my pickup truck, my dog, my shop, and all my tools. Life is pretty sweet, really.
 

Richard King 2

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#28
I thought I told you to do that in post 11 paragraph 3 ?
As I read that you lost your wife, I was thinking she passed away.... but I read it again and it looks like you got the gold mine and she got the shaft?
 

dewbane

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I thought I told you to do that in post 11 paragraph 3 ?
As I read that you lost your wife, I was thinking she passed away.... but I read it again and it looks like you got the gold mine and she got the shaft?
Indeed, you did tell me that in post 11, paragraph 3. It's been a rough few months my friend. I didn't really get a gold mine, because I'm going to be in debt until I'm 80 years old, but I was able so save my ship from that woman one last time. She left me after 27 years, for some guy on Facebook who took every penny she had. That seems fair to me. I'm glad I no longer share a joint checking account with someone that stupid.
 

Richard King 2

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Yikes....I've been married 40 some years....I hope she doesn't see "some" as I forget. As long as you didn't jump from the frying pan into the fire. I am sorry it didn't workout. I am happy I could have helped.... Have a great day. Rich..
PS: I think I asked you this before,,,,do you know Roger Polidaro who is from Christiansburg? He used to own Eastern Repair and Fabrication. It was the old colored, (not politically correct, sorry ) HS just down the block from the new HS on the hill.
 
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