Got a 2HL Universal with the vertical head!

Crank

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Long story short, this popped up on the Bay and the guy put it on CL so I could talk to him. Bought it last Wednesday and finally got it trucked to my house today. She was born in June 1943, so she just celebrated her 76th birthday. The guy I bought it from was horrified that I would think about selling my Bridgeport, but I still can't see why I need it considering what this beast is capable of. I also purchased the K&T dividing head that was originally on it, but no lead assembly to drive it. I'm already done stopping the paint that was slobbered on it and primed it for some industrial paint.
Enjoy!

Mark


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DiscoDan

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What's not to like!
 

Martin W

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Beautiful!
There are manuals on Vintage Machinery
Cheers
Martin
 

Technical Ted

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Nice machine! Reminds me of my Brown and Sharpe. But, I'd hang on to the Bridgeport if it was me...

Ted
 

Crank

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Thanks for the comments. I have to flush the oiling system, but kerosene seems to be another thing California considers evil and is a rather scarce commodity. I'm going to check with a local marine fuel company and see what they can provide. Otherwise, I'll probably consider paying the price for some ATF to clean the internals up and get any muck into suspension so I can drain it out.

Ted,
If I had a surplus of space, I guess it might justify gathering dust. For now, I'm going to shuffle it over and hopefully have enough room for both and keep decent access to the controls without acrobatics. My gripe with my Bridgeport is that it does wonderful light work, but the moment you want to remove any appreciable material, it's just not rigid and powerful enough. My buddy has one of those little Rockwell verticals and I would rather that size to do light work. The quill feature is okay to have, but a drill press can handle those chores. I'm not saying that Bridgeports are bad, it's just a matter that I have a plain vanilla model with a light spindle and a 1hp motor. Compare it to the fan base of early Mustangs and Camaros, people are enamored with the platform, but they came from a 6cyl econobox, to fire-breathing big block monsters. Mine is the mainstream model. For now, it will stick around and later maybe I'll either sell it, or trade it for a small rigid vertical.

Mark
 

Choiliefan

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Having screwed up once using ATF as a flush, I'd be careful with that.
The ATF may swell and ultimately damage seals and o-rings.
Perhaps diesel fuel would work???
You still have diesel is CA, no? :)
 

Crank

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I'd prefer not to use diesel due to water content. If 15 minutes of ATF was that much of a problem, I have bigger issues. It won't be my top choice, I would rather kerosene, since that is what the factory reccomends.

Mark

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benmychree

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Nice machine! Reminds me of my Brown and Sharpe. But, I'd hang on to the Bridgeport if it was me...

Ted
I agree with Technical Ted; both mills have their place; I have a #2 universal light type B&S, and a Fray vertical mill, I use both pretty much equally, the Fray is like an early Bridgeport (short table), but is a good deal heavier, both share the same spindle tooling, at least the 30 taper portion. The sliding quill on the vertical is an important feature on a mill, and cannot be replaced by a drill press for many jobs.
 

Crank

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Well you're describing what I would want in a vertical mill. Heavier, smaller table (mines a 42") and beefier toolholding. I'm in agreement that the vertical has a place, I'm just trying to make all of this fit in the rear half of a two car garage, which currently has two lathes, 3 Vidmar cabinets, a compressor, TIG welder, oxy/fuel, two workbenches (one has a 7" SB shaper on it) and other items. I'm going to try and make it work, but I think there will have to be some major changes for layout in order to to keep it a workable space. I hate having equipment buried and not accessible quickly. If that pesky clerk at the corner store would just quit toying with me and give me that winning lottery ticket I keep asking for, I wouldn't have this problem.

Mark

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markba633csi

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What's wrong with walking sideways?
I've been accused of worse things than being a crab :big grin:
Mark I'd be interested in knowing how you moved that K&T- any scary moments?
 

Crank

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Mark,
I had a local machinery guy pick it up and get it to my house. It was on a pallet, in an open area, so loading was no problem (I wasn't even there for pick-up). He got to my place, took it off with his forklift, and I asked him to get it off the pallet and place it at the open spot at the garage door. Once on the concrete, we got some steel rods under it in a fan pattern and snuck it in around my workbench, no moments of terror or any physical exertion. His price was more than fair to save the time and heartache, plus he was willing to help even when I felt he had done his job.

In just under 1 1/2 hours, I got his text he was on his way, made my excuses and hauled butt out of work, beat him there, cleared a path, he showed up, unloaded, helped and left, I placed everything back in the garage, got gas and made it back to work before my supervisor even knew I was gone. All that without any foul language or casualties to personnel and equipment. Hands down the easiest move of any equipment I have ever done. It's not in its permanent home yet, that will wait until I finish maintenance and plot where it should live.

So far, this purchase has been almost spooky how it came together, price and the fact that I couldn't have asked for a better variant to have for my needs. I have to emphasize that I wasn't driven by the fact that many YouTube personalities seem to have similar machines, I was drawn to it's size and capabilities, then I found out how popular they are.

I tore into the vertical attachment last night after finally noticing that one of the bolts holding the spindle assembly was snapped off. It was heavily packed with grease and didn't have any "glitter" in it, so no cause for alarm. The exterior of the machine is cleaning up without too much fuss, between WD-40 and M-Pro 7 gun cleaner, it's removing most of the fossilized dinosaur juice and grime. I just have to get that Kerosene and put a plug on the end of the wiring to fire it up for a flush and test. Hopefully that will happen over the holiday weekend.

Mark
 

NortonDommi

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" I have to flush the oiling system, but kerosene seems to be another thing California considers evil and is a rather scarce commodity "
No.2 Diesel and what is this about water content? There are actual international as well as country limits. You are using it as a flush. There was lighting Kerosene, fuel Kerosene, No.1 Diesel, No.2 Diesel .... Fuel Kero and No1 Diesel were essentially the same which is why there was a standard shake down.
I use Diesel straight from the bowser as an engine flush regularly and never a problem. I live on an Island and water in fuel is a rare problem and nearly always at a marina through bad storage or on earthmoving plant through stupidity. Diesel bug is a bigger worry.
 
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Technical Ted

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To remove the gear that drives the vertical head, just loosen the draw bolt and give the end of the bolt a rap. Should pop right out of the 50 taper. You might have to have your machine in a lower gear and even apply the brake to loosen the draw bolt if it's really tight.

Ted
 

Crank

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Okay, first, we're past the flushing product debate, so thanks for the input, but that can be put to rest.

Ted,
I wish it was that simple, I noted the offending drawbar in the video. I have used drawbars and what it should normally take to remove one. If you could take a picture of yours, or confirm that the one I have is stock, or homebrewed would help out. It looks factory made, but I'm surprised they made it multiple components.

Thanks

Mark

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Technical Ted

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I don't have a K&T. I have a Brown and Sharpe. My B&S is the same as the Cincinnati mills we used at work and I assume that your K&T functions the same way.

I put my machine into a low speed gear and apply the brake. Loosen the draw bar in the back with a wrench and give it a tap with the wrench. It should pop right out. Yours might be froze up if it's sat for a while. Spray everything down with a good penetrating oil if needed. Maybe give it a good wrap with a hammer using block of hard wood on the draw bar. If it's froze up it might take a good wrap or two.

I don't know of any way of holding a 50 taper holder in other than what I have described, but if there is maybe someone else can add so additional info.

Is the problem you can't loosen the draw bar or just can't get the holder out? If the spindle is rotating while attempting to loosed the draw bar you'll have to figure out a way to keep it from turning. Typically, using a low gear and the brake will hold it.

Maybe protect the gear somehow and put a clamp on it and use the outriggers to stop the spindle/clamp from turning??? (Jut trying to throw out some ideas).

Good luck,
Ted
 

NCjeeper

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Man I wish stuff like this would pop up on the east coast.
 

Technical Ted

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Here's some pictures of mine; again, a Brown and Sharpe 2B horizonal a very similar type to your K&T.

You loosen the nut on the draw bar and back it off a couple of turns, rap the draw bar with whatever, and the holder should pop loose. Then, unscrew the draw bar from the holder and out it comes (or should anyways).

Ted

IMG_20190705_100614.jpgIMG_20190705_100628.jpgMVIMG_20190705_100437.jpg
 

Crank

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Ted,
I think your pictures gave me an idea. I'm heading to the garage once I get dressed (the neighbors get weird otherwise ) and try something a bit different. I'll report shortly.

Mark

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Choiliefan

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Man I wish stuff like this would pop up on the east coast.
Not hijacking this thread but there was a pretty nice Cinncinnati near Louisburg a couple months ago.
Came with several arbors, supports, tool holders, etc and sold on ebay for about $662.
Had he listed it on CL, it would have sold and he'd've saved on the fees.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-number-2-horizonal-milling-machine-/312564290734?hash=item48c64894ae:g:nXIAAOSwa7Rcqj6k&nma=true&si=EK9zOoj%2Fj%2FGxNepkVBHVs1rUL%2Fc%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
cinci 2mi.jpg
 

Crank

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Figured out why it put up such a fight. Look at the pictures and tell me what you see (or don't). Little bugger, tool several hard whacks with a long wrench and a 3lb sledge to get the nut unseated.

Mark


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Technical Ted

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Glad you got it out. I see a few things of note in the pictures.

The drive gear holder has been spinning/slipping in the spindle. I suggest checking your spindle to see if there is any damage (looks like there might be some in the picture). I'm speculating that the previous owner tightened the draw bar VERY tight in an attempt to keep the holder from spinning in the taper. If the 90 degree head is in good shape, I don't see why this holder should slip unless the taper is damaged and the draw bar won't hold it in correctly. I suggest checking things out and deal with any possible issues.

I see there are no keys in the spindle face. They may have been removed because they interfered with the gear when it was inserted in the spindle. These keys will keep holders from spinning when used. I suggest making a pair (or at least one). You might not be able to use them with this drive gear and your overhead, but you can use them with other holders.

Looks like your K&T setup is identical to my B&S. If I remember correctly, the drive gears for the overheads on our Cincinnati mills at work did use drive keys. I don't have an overhead on my B&S. I did mount a Bridgeport M head on it, but don't use that now since I have a Bridgeport 2J head mill and a Bridgeport 2/3rds clone (Jet).

Again, make some room and hang on to that Bridgeport of yours. That type of mill is MUCH more versatile than these big old horizontal mills. For the work I do, hobbyist, small repair items, etc., if I had to pick one machine, I'd get rid of the horizontal mill in a heart beat. But, YMMV depending on the type of work you do. Personally, I'm not too concerned with taking heavier cuts with the bigger machine. I look for versatility and what I can do with a particular machine. But, as long as I have the room, I'll keep my 2B horizontal! :)

Ted
 

Crank

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Ted,
You got it! No drive dogs, hence the gorilla torque to keep everything from slipping. What I need to do is to install some to keep things from moving around.

One of the "needs" I am foreseeing, is that I want to dip my toes in the water to learn scraping. That will require some big cuts in cast iron to rough machine a straightedge or three ;) and I have a few other heavy jobs I want to dabble with. I will agree, a dedicated vertical has its place, but I would rather a machine with a much smaller footprint since I realistically would only need something with about a legitimate 18" X 6" working area, but rigidity is a key concern. If I could magically shrink my table to half it's current size on the Bridgeport, I wouldn't think twice about it.

I am one of those people that prefers to avoid the Swiss Army knife principal "does a bunch of things, but none of them well" I much rather suitable equipment that does the work in its regular envelope. So I would love to have a smaller precise vertical for when the K&T is bringing the nuclear option to an ant problem. I actually have even kicked around one of those stout little Hardinge units from days gone by, but the collet choices aren't the best. Maybe I'll get lucky and someone has something they want to trade for my Bridgeport and we both can be happy.

Mark
 

NCjeeper

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Not hijacking this thread but there was a pretty nice Cinncinnati near Louisburg a couple months ago.
Came with several arbors, supports, tool holders, etc and sold on ebay for about $662.
Had he listed it on CL, it would have sold and he'd've saved on the fees.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cincinnati-number-2-horizonal-milling-machine-/312564290734?hash=item48c64894ae:g:nXIAAOSwa7Rcqj6k&nma=true&si=EK9zOoj%2Fj%2FGxNepkVBHVs1rUL%2Fc%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
View attachment 297783
Aww man. Ironic I worked in a plant in Franklinton back in 1985.
 

Crank

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Update:
Life has been busy, but I finally bored two holes in the drive gear to install drive dogs. Sorry, I didn't take any pictures, but now I can just snug the repaired drawbar and all should be well. I also made a new T-bolt for the head attachment.

Mark
 

Crank

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I forgot to mention that I redecorated my shop two weeks ago and the flow of everything is so much improved that I will be keeping the Bridgeport. It's amazing how its previous location was the primary reason I had less than good luck with it. I have both milling machines located in such a way that I have full travel on the tables and total access to the sides.

Here is the herd milling around waiting for their new homes.
IMG_20190720_094024_01.jpg

Both mills set in place and checked for full travel.
IMG_20190720_140756_01.jpg

The Takisawa nestled comfortably against the back wall.
IMG_20190720_140805_01.jpg

I need to emphasize that when these pictures were taken, the rest of my junk was sitting out in the driveway and filled up most of the remaining space once it was moved back in. I am making some improvements to regain floor space, so the battle for real estate continues. :)

Mark
 

Technical Ted

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Down the road you will be glad you hung on to that Bridgeport... Glad everything worked out so well for you.

Ted
 

Crank

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Ted,
I guess I had become rather adversarial towards my Bridgeport over the years, since its original location was dictated by the size of my previous lathe and how I had run the power to the mill. By having a lathe 3 feet shorter than my old Graziano, I finally was able to have the Takisawa along the back wall like all of my previous lathes and the two mills can play nice and not interfere with each other.

I will freely admit that the Bridgeport did a great job machining the K&T drive gear for the lugs and restored some of my faith in what that machine can do. It's still not a powerhouse and the lack of a powered knee leaves it a bit of work, but it was so much easier to use where I have it now. I still wouldn't mind a Deckel FP-1 if somebody wants to get rid of one cheap :)
 
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