Graziano 12S

[ACHiPo]

Quote from another forum: 'Lapping is a precision process where consumable, made-to-suit special tooling is required along with hours of careful work by a skilled hand. Hard maple makes an excellent lap but you'll need to make several as Cal states and be ready to adjust them according to progress.'

Lapping is probably not the right word for the procedure I am suggesting. But first I would use the new MT5 test bar with bearing blue to get a better reading on what the problem is. If the internal taper is already holding somewhat I would not want to give it an aggressive treatment.

The tool I visualize would contact the full length of the taper. Then add strips of self adhesive wet /dry SiCa paper in 2000 to 4000 grit. Give it a few light turns in the taper. Since there is probably very little to remove it would not take forever.
The idea is along the same lines as an MT5 cleaning tool but with a hardwood arbor and very fine sandpaper instead of felt strips.

KBC,KBC 50 TAPER SPINDLE WIPER,7-170-003,KBC Tools & Machinery

KBC,KBC 50 TAPER SPINDLE WIPER,7-170-003,KBC Tools & Machinery

www.kbctools.ca

Toz,
This is pretty much the same as I was thinking last night. It seems like it could work well especially if I start with fine or extra fine mylar self-adhesive abrasives. I was thinking about starting with 600 grit, but it would be safer to start with 2000 and get coarser if necessary.

Since tapers as new are ground to maybe 400 grit finish, is having it too smooth an issue?

Evan

 

[Tozguy]

My thoughts for using very fine to start is that it might put a shine on the high spots and show them up.
Then you could decide if you go to the 600 or larger and then back to finer. You would need to read the paper and metal as you go and get a feel for what's happening.
Smooth and shiney would not bother me. It might even increase traction.
All grits are not created equal. Some coarser grits leave a smoother finish than finer grits. I have some 500 grit that is more aggressive than some 320 grit. I am not familiar with mylar self adhesive abrasives but would certainly give them a try.

 

[ACHiPo]

My thoughts for using very fine to start is that it might put a shine on the high spots and show them up.
Then you could decide if you go to the 600 or larger and then back to finer. You would need to read the paper and metal as you go and get a feel for what's happening.
Smooth and shiney would not bother me. It might even increase traction.
All grits are not created equal. Some coarser grits leave a smoother finish than finer grits. I have some 500 grit that is more aggressive than some 320 grit. I am not familiar with mylar self adhesive abrasives but would certainly give them a try.

That makes a lot of sense.

The mylar abrasives are smoother/flatter than paper or cloth-backed abrasives. They may only be available at the higher grit numbers--I can't recall. I've used them for sharpening and honing plane blades (the "scary sharp" method) when attached to a float glass plate.

I was just out in the shop over lunch and the roughness definitely is not enough to prevent good seating of the collet adapter--it doesn't want to come out now and that's just after I popped it in with the heel of my hand and tightened and loosened a collet a couple times.

We'll see what the test bar tells me, but I think it's not going to take a lot to get the collets to work as designed.

 

[Tozguy]

These people show grit in microns, .3 microns sounds scary fine to me but I don't speak the language

3M Micro Abrasive Film for Scary Sharpening - PSA | Scary Sharp Sandpaper

"Scary Sharp" sticky back sandpaper as recommended by Fine Woodworking for sharpening all kinds of tools and knives

toolsforworkingwood.com

 

[ACHiPo]

Here is a table comparing abrasive size to sandpaper ratings

Conversion Chart Abrasives - Grit Sizes | FINE TOOLS

Use this Conversion chart to view the different standards. This chart is a general overview only.

www.fine-tools.com

400 grit is about 40 um
600 grit is 28 um
1000 grit is 18 um
and so on...

0.3um is really flipping fine--it will produce a nearly mirror polish on a blade when used on a leather strop.

FEPA P Paper	Micron μm	FEPA F Grain	Micron μm	JIS R6001 Japan 1973	Micron μm	ANSI	Micron μm	MM
		F5	4125
		F6	3460
		F7	2900
		F8	2460
		F10	2085
P12	1815	F12	1765
		F14	1470
P16	1324	F16	1230
P20	1000	F20	1040
		F22	885
P24	764	F24	745
P30	642	F30	625
P36	538	F36	525
P40	425	F40	438
		F46	370
P50	336	F54	310
P60	269	F60	260	J60
		F70	218
P80	201
		F80	185
P100	162
		F90	154
P120	125	F100	129	J100	125	100	125
		F120	109
P150	100
P180	82	F150	82	J150	80	150	80
P220	68	F180	69	J180	70	180	70
		F220	58	J220	58	220	58
Micro grains	J240	80
				J280	68
P240	58.5 ±2			J320	57
P280	52.2 ±2	F230	53 ±3			240	51
P320	46.2 ±1.5			J360	48
		F240	44.5 ±2
P360	40.5 ±1.5			J400	40	280	41.5
P400	35.0 ±1.5	F280	36.5 ±1.5
				J500	34	320	33
P500	30.2 ±1.5	F320	29.2 ±1.5	J600	29	360	28
P600	25.8 ±1
P800	21.8 ±1	F360	22.8 ±1.5	J700	24	400	22.5	1500
P1000	18.3 ±1			J800	20
		F400	17.3 ±1	J1000	16	500	18
P1200	15.3 ±1					600	14	1800
P1500	12.6 ±1	F500	12.8 ±1	J1200	13			2400
P2000	10.3 ±0.8					800	12	3200
		F600	9.3 ±1	J1500	10
P2500	8.4 ±0.5			J2000	8	1000	7.8
P3000	7
P5000	5
		F800	6.5 ±1
		F1000	4.5 ±0.8	J3000	5	1200	5.5	4000
								6000
		F1200	3.0 ±0.5	J4000	3			8000
		F1500	2.0 ±0.4	J6000	2			12000
		F2000	1.2 ±0.3	J8000	1.2

 

[ACHiPo]

I'm happy to say that the two items I ordered from Asia: the test bar from India and the 5MT reamer set from China, will be here Monday instead of the expected end of July. Nice job of expectation management by those two Ebay companies. On the other hand the 30' of 8/4 SO cable I ordered from Iron-Box Electric in Indiana was supposed to be received Wednesday was not even shipped until Thursday. Fortunately I don't need it as I discovered the lathe actually came with about 20' of SO cable.

I've also received Shell Tellus 46 (replacement for Teresso 46) for the headstock, feedstock, and apron, as well as Mobil DTE24 (replacement for Teresso 32--thanks @Ulma Doctor !) for the gear box, so I can replace the fluids before I fire it up.

Oh, and the 10 HP RPC from North America Phase Converters arrived on schedule earlier this week. I just haven't had time to wire it up yet to see whether it will start without blowing my 20A breaker. I'm pretty impressed with the fit/finish and documentation of the NAPC unit. Hope it works as well as it looks.

 

[ACHiPo]

The reamer set arrived today. Still no sign of the test bar yet.

The reamer looks to be pretty nice quality. It's shown next to the 5MT/5C collet adapter for comparison.

 

[rlschow]

I'm happy to say that the two items I ordered from Asia: the test bar from India and the 5MT reamer set from China, will be here Monday instead of the expected end of July. Nice job of expectation management by those two Ebay companies. On the other hand the 30' of 8/4 SO cable I ordered from Iron-Box Electric in Indiana was supposed to be received Wednesday was not even shipped until Thursday. Fortunately I don't need it as I discovered the lathe actually came with about 20' of SO cable.

I've also received Shell Tellus 46 (replacement for Teresso 46) for the headstock, feedstock, and apron, as well as Mobil DTE24 (replacement for Teresso 32--thanks @Ulma Doctor !) for the gear box, so I can replace the fluids before I fire it up.

Oh, and the 10 HP RPC from North America Phase Converters arrived on schedule earlier this week. I just haven't had time to wire it up yet to see whether it will start without blowing my 20A breaker. I'm pretty impressed with the fit/finish and documentation of the NAPC unit. Hope it works as well as it looks.

I’m curious to know if you’ve run your Graziano on that RPC yet. I just brought a SAG 12S home from Napa and need to get or make a converter for it.

 

[ACHiPo]

I’m curious to know if you’ve run your Graziano on that RPC yet. I just brought a SAG 12S home from Napa and need to get or make a converter for it.

Congrats. I think I know the Graz you brought home.

I'm quite happy with the RPC I bought. It is a North American Phase Converter. I went with the 10 HP on a 20A circuit and everything seems quiet and happy.

Still working through my Graz. I love many aspects of it, but it's looking like a headstock rebuild is in my future.

 

[rlschow]

Congrats. I think I know the Graz you brought home.

I'm quite happy with the RPC I bought. It is a North American Phase Converter. I went with the 10 HP on a 20A circuit and everything seems quiet and happy.

Still working through my Graz. I love many aspects of it, but it's looking like a headstock rebuild is in my future.

Oh, sorry to hear that about your headstock. That’s a chore. It’s surprising (but good) to hear that a 20 amp breaker doesn’t pop when you load your motor. I bought my machine from rpseguin who had an ad on PM. He found it sitting outside, where it had been long enough to develop some surface rust, at Gary Aragon’s yard. My adventure’s just begining: I’ll clean it up some, change the oil, power it up, and see what it needs. Since I don’t speak Italian, it helps to be able to follow what you and a couple others on PM have recently been doing to get your machines sorted out. Here it is in Napa before it hopped onto my trailer.