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Hafco AL900A lathe, is anyone able to identify what it really is?

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dgrev

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#61
Bob, with oils it seems the problem is to buy oil that does not have additives. The additive package is what the oil companies use as their "marketing point of difference" - remember the Castrol ads "Oils ain't just oils". Buying a non-additive oil is thus a problem.
Your point about Chain Saw bar oil is noted thanks.
When I got my first car, 20W40 was the standard oil as was 90 weight gear oil. Neither are made now. The closest you can get to the former IIRC is 15W40 in synthetic,
and the latter is 80W90: despite any manufacturer's claims, it pour like water and it is the additive package that gives it the viscosity. One thing I know for sure, the wider the multi-viscosity the quicker it leaks out in the older vehicles.
The Penrite company do a whole range of "older" oils for collector cars, product is based on decade of manufacture of the car.
So for oil issues I find myself having to shop for Penrite.
They actually make a Veteran spec oil (up to roughly 1919) and it says on the bottle to change it no later than 500 miles of use! That gives an idea of how much difference the additive package, detergent and an oil filter makes when current oil change intervals are around 10,000km (6,000 miles for the Americans reading this). Easiest way to get minimal additives is to go for hydraulic oil, but it typically comes in 44 gallon drums or ISO cubes as most hydraulic devices are losey or large or both.
Auto tranny fluid is hydraulic oil, but with additives, I have plenty of it but can't use it in lathe.
 

dgrev

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#62
Carbide inserts - are the Chinese ones on ebay ok or cheap rubbish?
 

Mitch Alsup

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#63
2 points::

1) Hydraulic oil is often available in 1 gallon bottles. I use ISO 32 in my Lathe headstock and carriage and ISO 68 for the ways.

2) I have had good luck so far with the cheapo Chinese carbide bits. The only one I have damages is one that took a hit by a jaw on the 4-jaw while spinning at 1000 RPMs. Broke a sizable chip off the corner. Still using it on the other corner.
 

dgrev

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#64
Mitch. Thanks for that. I did wonder if the Chinese bits were inferior or not. So hard to know these days if the name brand stuff is just the Chinese stuff rebranded at 4x the price or is genuinely of better quality.
 

Mitch Alsup

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#65
I did wonder if the Chinese bits were inferior or not.
Notice that I very carefully did not compare the Chinese carbide to anyone elses carbide.
I just stated that for the things I have been machining they work well for me on my lathe.
I have used them on 4140, mild steel, and 6061T6

I looked at it this way:: at those prices I can/could afford to receive pure junk and not get upset about it.
On the other hand, the carbide tipped tools I used on my Taig micro-lathe lasted 10+ years without even appearing to wear (6061 T6 only)
 

dgrev

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#66
Mitch, photos attached of some of what came with my lathe. There doesn't appear to be any markings on this stuff, but by the stile of the boxes I assume Chinese.
The ones with the bits removed, the bits typically have 2 of the 3 tips chipped off.
There are some bit holders marked IIRC "Serco" that I haven't photographed yet.
 

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Mitch Alsup

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#67
Wipe 'em down with oil, and get fresh inserts.

Ebay is generally where I look, but do read the catalogs by the top carbide manufactures--it will give you a lot better insight as to what you might see on ebay/amazon in terms of chip breakers, coatings,...
 

dgrev

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#68
Mitch. Ok, what are the top names? Showing my total ignorance here.....
 

dgrev

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#69
Spent this arvo clearing a spot for the lathe and then getting it into that spot and then leveling it. Used the top of the cross slide as a reference with it parked at the spindle, no problems. Then used the 2 x "V"s at the tail stock end and could not get it. Very curiously, the "V"s are different heights - wonder why?
So took the carriage down that end and used the same location on the cross slide and got it level (no twist).
I have a Gunner's Quadrant somewhere that is illusive at the moment, once I find it, I will use it to confirm the leveling as it is very accurate. Only had a 3' carpenter's level this arvo.

First question:
20180617_164834a.jpg
- where will I get the 30T and 32T gears that are missing along with the underside clamp plate for the steady rest?
In photo is the original tool head - I think Bob wanted to see it?
 

dgrev

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#70
Next question: is it normal to get spare 3 jaw chuck jaws?
I was under the impression that you only need to run the jaws out of the chuck and swap end to make them inside jaws, so do not need
a set of opposite jaws?
Is there anything odd or different about these? See photo.
- Also there is a brass cog, I seem to recall seeing something somewhere on the internet and it said there should be 2 of them and they go in the apron? Worries me that there is this lonely one that is not in the apron!
- Does anyone recognise the little cylindrical
20180617_164758a.jpg
stepped dohickey? At the bottom end there is a small plastic insert?
 
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dgrev

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#71
For those who were curious, attached photos of the oil level glasses and some of the tools that came with the lathe.
20180617_161455a.jpg
20180617_161506a.jpg
20180617_161506a.jpg

I didn't get as far as the shop, so will need to get some oil tomorrow.
Likewise, the motor belt looks like it has seen better days. See photo.
20180617_162805a.jpg

That is easy enough to change. However the norton head belt has started to delaminate, realistically it will probably last some time. Advice please on replacing it:
1) Do a tear down, a lot of work I assume to dismantle the head?

2) Cut belt and replace with one of those linked things. What brand etc please?


Does anyone recognise the hexagonal stock tool on the right, I am assuming it is some sort of boring tool but can't see the point of it unless it is to avoid using a drill first?
20180617_164743a.jpg


Regards
Doug
 

BenW

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#72
Self-centering chucks usually have on set of id and one set of od jaws while on individual ones you can just flip the jaws since the threads are straight.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

pdentrem

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#73
For the belt for the spindle, best to use a link belt. Fenner is the maker of choice in North America, no clue for Australia.
 

Downunder Bob

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#74
For the belt for the spindle, best to use a link belt. Fenner is the maker of choice in North America, no clue for Australia.
Fenner and Gates are both available in Australia.
 

dgrev

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#75
Bob who would be best to purchase a belt from please?
 

Downunder Bob

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#76
Bob who would be best to purchase a belt from please?
Off the top of my head Doug, no idea. It's a bloody long time since I bought a belt and that was a car belt skinny one "A" section I think, about 4 cars ago. I will make some enquiries for you, though it's a bit late for today. From the photo yours looks like "B" section, but could also be a fancy one so you do need to get it identified.

Do the belts on the lathe have any I.D. marks on them, are they the same? The motor belt should be pretty easy to get off, Take it to the car place you mentioned they might be able to identify it for you.

You could also try Southstate industrial supplies or formula motor parts they should be able to measure the belt an possibly supply one. You need to decide if you want to use a regular belt on the motor or a link belt as well as on the spindle. If they are both the same section then you will just need to buy a length of the right section link belting and you're in business.

Give the link belt some thought, while I've not tried it, a number of people on this and other forums say that they are better on a lathe than plain belts. Apparently less vibration.

Once you get that motor belt off, try to identify it If those places cant supply anything let me know and I'll ask around here in Adelaide. They should be able to supply and probably cheaper by the time you factor in postage. Let me know how you go
 

dgrev

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#77
Bob. Will do. It looks to be a B section, certainly not an A. The motor belt should be in stock here, it is only just holding together, so needs doing.

But it does not seem like anyone here stocks the link belt. May have to wait until I go to Adelaide next. The head belt still has life in it, so not urgent.

I priced a 30 or 32T gear from a certain place in Adelaide you know well. $185 plus GST plus postage! I am not paying 10% of the price of a lathe just for a little cog, so will put that idea on the back burner and only get serious if I need to cut a 1.5mm metric thread. Or may buy one in from USA where the prices are reasonable, until you include postage that is.

The saga today was getting some ISO 32 hydraulic fluid. Got to do a tour of all the car parts places and industrial supply places including the 2 you mention above. One had ISO 68, another ISO 46. Wanted 5L so that ruled out the likes of Cat and the truck supplies as they all have 20L minimum size packages - won't use that much in 200 years! Ended up at Blackwoods as the only stockist, weird blue colour, but will do.

By the way, those 2 sight glasses in the head have a tiny little hole in them above the H letter, which I am guessing is the over fill safe guard, one
guess how I found out.....
They have a plastic or rubber collar on them, not an "O" ring to retain them.

The apron filler point gives no indication of when enough, until you notice the puddle coming out from the chip tray.....

Did some turning this arvo. Managed to scrounge up some axle steel. By the crikey it is hard! Used one of the chipped tungsten carbide bits that came with the lathe. Bit chattery, so was only taking 20 thou cuts to face end where it had been oxy'ed off. Think I may have rpm too low as am not used to the carbide twice as fast idea.

Very out of touch, it has been 3 decades since I last was on a lathe, all a bit intimidating, but good to be making chips again!

Regards
Doug
 

Downunder Bob

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#78
Doug You may never need the 30 and 32 T gears I wouldn't worry about them until you have a definite need. they should be able to get the link belt in, but if they can't or won't let me know and I can get some for you and post it up if you need it before your next trip downhere. Just need to be certain of the section and the length.

Yes the axle steel is hard and tough, you can cut with HSS, but at about half normal speed. but carbide should be at least double normal. I have taken some cuts about .060 but with new tips and my lathe is, well new, and it's nice and tight.

Have you been able to identify the tip holders yet. If they don't have ID numbers on them or they cant be read you can work it out, need to get on the website of a major manufacturer of them and they have charts showing the dimensions. but it's pretty complicated. Might be easier just to order some new ones. but even that's tricky because you need to know the system before you can decide which one you want.

Have you been able to ID your QCTP yet? what is the largest size shank that will fit your QCTP, mine takes 16mm pretty common size. Also you said there was a grub screw missing from one of the holders, can you show a photo of it alongside one that is not missing plus length and Dia x pitch.

Are there any small private machine shops in the Hill. I know there used to be, they did a lot of contract work for the mines and other contractors.
 

dgrev

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#79
Bob. Just thought it would be good to have 1.5mm thread ability. Working on theory that if I do need it, could be a long wait to get gears.

Thanks for offer of link belt. Should be ok till I get down there. What suburb are you in if you don't mind me asking?

Tip holders, a couple have a SECO sticker on them. The rest appear Chinese. Will examine for markings and get back to you.

QCTP - no idea of brand, did not notice one, but wasn't looking either. Need to measure grub screw and get back to you. I do know the darn thing rotated several times whilst I was machining the axle. Had to resort to giving the handle a solid whack with a rubber mallet to get it to stay put. I was probably loading the tool too much with the chipped carbide bit but it did surprise me that doing as tight by hand as I could was not sufficient.

There is one private turning and milling place left. He must be pushing up to retirement now, many years since he had anyone working for him. I think his bread and butter are brake drum and brake disk refacing these days.
 

Downunder Bob

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#80
Yes unfortunately 1.5mm is a reasonably common pitch, perhaps if you were to measure your 40T gear od and id. if it matches mine I should be able to get a spare 30 and 32 T from the people I bought my lathe from.

Get to know the private guy he may have lots of valuable information for you, he may even know where to get various materials from in your area.

I am in Eden Hills down the hill a bit from Blackwood.
 

NortonDommi

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#81
Hi Doug,
It looks like there are enough legible numbers to use on the data plate to work out the ratios.
If you take the thread on the data plate that is the same pitch as the leadscrew and the teeth on the change gears you can work out the starting point to calculate the rest. Pretty easy once you get going as most of it is just progression.
Most of the information looks like it is legible so might pay to just make a new data plate. Nothing worse than trying to decipher faded letters/numbers on a Winter night.
Attached is a program called 'Lathe Gears'. Once your ratios are entered into the appropriate place you can find threads that are not on the data plate and it will also tell you what change gears you will need.
 

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dgrev

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#82
Barry. Excellent, thank you. Looks reasonably straight forward other than I need to work out whats in the change gear box. Thanks Doug.
 

dgrev

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#83
Barry. I entered all the data, very straight forward. Any suggestion as to why the programme will not let me save on the first page?
It wants to write to a file named LatheGears.ini. I have installed the programme multiple times, but no file of that name appears. So I created one, that did not work either.
I cannot get the "Calculate Gear Ratios" to work even when I dial it up to 20% error?
So looks like the missing LatheGears.ini file is crucial.

UPDATE:
Figured our the problem the install programme puts everything in the root area of c:\Program Files (x86), but this is a protected area and I would have to open it up to allow disk writes. Probably not a good idea. So I made a new directory elsewhere and then pasted the files into that area. All works good now. I can now input and save my ratios. Looks like there is no magic to be had, my existing cobs won't do 1.5mm laid out the way they are although the programme is telling me to swap the 40T and the 127T. Will investigate that as worth a try.
Doug
 
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Downunder Bob

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#84
Next question. On top of apron/carriage there is an oil filler plug, very nicely marked "Oil". But no sight glass and no obvious drain plug.

So how do I know how much oil to put in there?

None of the manuals mention quantity.

Providing I can find a drain point I will multi flush that too.
======
Oh, other success was a magnetic base dial indicator. I was sure from the last time I was around lathes (about 3 decades ago) that they were spring loaded to give a dynamic run out reading. This thing was quite firm and stayed where ever I pushed it to. Hmmmm. Gave it a liberal dose of WD-40 (no INOX yet) and got it working. Chuffed!
It does however want to rest at 20 thou before zero and is at full travel 20 thou after 1". Is that normal? View attachment 269808
Doug, that oil cap looks very similar to one on my lathe that is situated on the front face of the saddle, it also has a sight glass, but then it is a later model. There is another one, smaller on the top of the norton feed box, but no sight glass, the book says to add oil until it overflows. there is an oil reservoir hidden out of sight that the gears dip into and spread it around that way. So I guess your saddle one works the same way.

The dial indicator that hangs at .020" can have one or more of a couple of faults.
1. the shaft is very slightly bent, usually caused by dropping. Look for wear marks on one side of the shaft in that area.Put a very small amount of polishing compoud on it and work it in and out, then clean and lube it.
2. A small amount of dried oil, on the internal gears, or even a tiny splinter of something on the gear rack. Clean out internally, lube and your back in business. Often caused by being opened up in an unclean area.

Fine clock oil is the best to use in these things, any really light oil will do, I again use my trusty inox. also use it on the internals of mic's.
 

dgrev

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#85
Bob
I went looking after reading your email and there is a flip top oiler snuggled up alongside the lower 40T cog under the side cover on the Norton box. It is mounted on an elbow so feeds horizontally into the GCB. It does seem to be an overflow design.
It took probably 10 oil can squirts. But no way to know how much was still in there.
I did see on a Youtube video that some brands have a felt strip with holes in it to drip the oil onto the gears. Seems very rudimentary to me.

It is not that the dial indicator hangs, it now has nice movement over the whole range. Maximum down travel is -.020" and maximum up travel is 1.020". May just be the way it is designed so that you can snuggle it up to the job and apply pressure until it reads 0. Likewise if running an eccentric of up to 1" with 20 thou overrun so that you know that you have overrun rather than think it is spot on at 1" and it actually going over?
 

dgrev

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#86
Did some boring today on mild steel hollow bar.
I had to abandon the axle steel as the 3/4" morse taper drills bounced off it. The material seems to get harder the further out the diameter. The inner 1/2" of the diameter cut lovely, once I changed up to the 3/4" bits, even with resharpening, they would not bight.
Using a carbide insert tool that came with the lathe gave a very squeally experience, so much so I resorted to both ear plugs and ear muffs. Looking at the photos I took to post here, I now see why, damaged point on the carbide insert. Does anyone know why my photos get stood on edge when I upload them?
20180619_161929a.jpg


As the finish was so rough, I changed over to the tool in the next photo.
20180619_161859a.jpg

The result using power feed at a slow rate is below. You are looking at an I.d of about 49mm.
20180619_161948a.jpg

I do have this tool, pic below.
20180619_162042a.jpg


But as it is around 5/16" dia and I need to bore, well, clean up the bore, to a depth of 85mm I do worry it will chatter even worse than the first carbide tool due to flexing.

Criticisms/suggestions etc please?

Regards
Doug
 

Downunder Bob

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#87
Bob
I went looking after reading your email and there is a flip top oiler snuggled up alongside the lower 40T cog under the side cover on the Norton box. It is mounted on an elbow so feeds horizontally into the GCB. It does seem to be an overflow design.
It took probably 10 oil can squirts. But no way to know how much was still in there.
I did see on a Youtube video that some brands have a felt strip with holes in it to drip the oil onto the gears. Seems very rudimentary to me.

It is not that the dial indicator hangs, it now has nice movement over the whole range. Maximum down travel is -.020" and maximum up travel is 1.020". May just be the way it is designed so that you can snuggle it up to the job and apply pressure until it reads 0. Likewise if running an eccentric of up to 1" with 20 thou overrun so that you know that you have overrun rather than think it is spot on at 1" and it actually going over?

All good. Drip feed is sufficient for the application, those gear in the norton box are not highly loaded some chinese lathes use plastic gears.
 

Downunder Bob

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#88
Carbide inserts - are the Chinese ones on ebay ok or cheap rubbish?
They're usually ok for what we do, they'd be no good in a production shop, but for hobby mostly they're good enough.
 

Downunder Bob

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#89
Did some boring today on mild steel hollow bar.
I had to abandon the axle steel as the 3/4" morse taper drills bounced off it. The material seems to get harder the further out the diameter. The inner 1/2" of the diameter cut lovely, once I changed up to the 3/4" bits, even with resharpening, they would not bight.
Using a carbide insert tool that came with the lathe gave a very squeally experience, so much so I resorted to both ear plugs and ear muffs. Looking at the photos I took to post here, I now see why, damaged point on the carbide insert. Does anyone know why my photos get stood on edge when I upload them?
View attachment 270043

As the finish was so rough, I changed over to the tool in the next photo.
View attachment 270044
The result using power feed at a slow rate is below. You are looking at an I.d of about 49mm.
View attachment 270045
I do have this tool, pic below.
View attachment 270046

But as it is around 5/16" dia and I need to bore, well, clean up the bore, to a depth of 85mm I do worry it will chatter even worse than the first carbide tool due to flexing.

Criticisms/suggestions etc please?

Regards
Doug
That axle steel will be softer in the middle, because when it's heat treated the centre doesn't cool as quickly when it's quenched.

Jumping From 1/2" to 3/4" is a big step for that hard material, try 5/8" what speed are you running? is the drill properly sharpened? What are your drill sharpening skills?

Re chatter and squealing. When boring always use the thickest boring bar that will fit, and keep the overhang (stickout) of the bar from the holder to as little as you can get away with.

You will also need to have a very sharp tool, those broken carbide bits are not really good enough. can you dress them up with a diamond lap, a sharp tool can make a world of difference. Also check the gibs on the crossfeed and compound slide, make sure they are as firm as you can without binding. Make sure the compound is wound back so that the tool post is as near as you can to directly over the compound swivel. check that the tool post is locked down tight, sometimes you can get a situation where the tool post doesn't actually sit on the top of the compound but rather sits on the step on the hold down bolt, allowing it to rock.. Check you are running the right speed for the metal and the tool. experiment with depth of cut and feed, increase one and reduce the other.

Check that the tool is exactly on center, what top rake do you have, also front and side clearance, and that the bottom of the bar is not rubbing, Boring is always more critical than outside turning.
 

tjb

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#90
Here are some photos of a 10 x 24 lathe I bought/restored/sold last year. It is a Kin Shin, which is essentially a clone of the Jet P1024. Note from the photos the main hand wheel, like yours, is on the RHS. From the photo on the nameplate, you can note: 1. it was made in Taiwan; 2. it was built in 1976; 3. it was originally sold in Australia. I bought this lathe from the man who bought it new in Australia and has had it sitting in his shop - unused - for decades here in Georgia, USA. The comment above about the main hand wheel location applying to an English or Commonwealth market will most likely also apply to the Australian market.

This turned out to be a VERY nice lathe. I bought it because it looked like it would be an interesting project to restore (it was), and I sold it because, with two other larger lathes, I didn't think I would miss it much (I did). Wish I had it back.

Yours is clearly a larger version, but I suspect it's essentially the same lathe. As I understand it, in the mid- to late seventies, several Taiwanese mom-and-pop operations were competing for the US/European market. Jet won, and the others simply went away. Since all were acquiring raw parts from the same manufacturer, the assembled units were nearly identical except for cosmetic differences and nameplates.

I have loads of other photos I can send you if it will help. Just send me a PM.

Also, I engaged in a handful of posts seeking information on some restoration issues. Not sure how to attach them here (any counsel from other members?), but I assume you can do a search on my member ID ('tjb') and find them. If that doesn't work, we can try a Plan B. I have noted no appreciable differences between my lathe and the Jet P1024.

Regards,
Terry
IMG_1190.JPG IMG_1191.JPG IMG_1200.JPG IMG_1209.JPG
 
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