[4]

Hafco AL900A lathe, is anyone able to identify what it really is?

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Bob

This looks very similar to mine, allowing for the passage of time and upgrades.

<https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L295>
Yes it does, similar to my original one also, but still not cheap, I think you'l find even the genuine Aloris is cheaper with many knockoffs even cheaper again and you'll have multiple suppliers not just one, and one that doesn't have the best of reputations.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Bob

I noticed that and corrected it.

Because the height stop is missing, I have to set the tip height to the live centre point each time I change tools. It is a nuisance for sure.

Doug
Do you not have even a single complete tool holder with adjustable height setting.
 

pdentrem

Active User
Registered
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
2,118
The height stops appears to be an easy job to make. I bought a Phase 2 wedge style to replace the 4-way tool post to get away from all the shimming required to use it. Just about any kind of QCTP system is better than the 4-way! As you get some time on the machine you will start spending more money on tools etc. Enjoy
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Bob. No, none of them are complete. All are missing the height device. Some are missing some of the grub screws IIRC 2 are missing the running thread for the height device.

Pierre. I had wondered about reverting to the 4 - way tool post, you just answered that question for me.

Regards
Doug
 

pdentrem

Active User
Registered
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
2,118
If you have to use a 4-way, get a couple sets of feeler gauges to help set the height of the tools. Usually one can only really get 2-3 tools in a 4-way due to the how the job calls for the tools and in which order.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Doug & Pierre, the Phase II is a chinese knockoff of the Aloris, the parts are interchangeable at each size range. they just use a different code for the size. My Aloris is the BXA which i think is called 200 series in Phase II and all the other knockoffs.

My other QCTP that came with the lathe as an optional extra, it also had a conventional 4 way tool post, is the Italian made ALGRA It looks quite similar to the one Doug has. We can compare some measurements and see if they are interchangeable.

Doug you have listed two different brands. There are quite a few of this design made by different companies in Europe, and they are not all interchangeable, so be careful. I'll have to dig mine out, it's a different brand again, I'll try to get some dimensions, and maye a pic or two The two flanges are actually on a helix and work like a cam, You would have to make them out of some pretty tough steel because they are hardened, A piece of axle steel would be good.

Send me a pic of yours so I can see what is missing, also note what the threads are, because I reckon I can get spares of some of the parts, if they are the same as mine.
Correction to the above.

The two flanges are not on a helix and do not work like a cam. They are parallel and on mine the the gap is 4mm the corresponding flange on the height adjusting spool is 3.5mm. A bit like a cotton reel. So it's not critical, easily made on the lathe. The hard bit is the eccentric further down the shaft, although I don't think the tolerances are anything to worry about, the top and bottom dia's. are 13.8 which are concentric with the other dia's above the main block.and the holes in the block that they fit into are14.1, The central section has a dia. of 11.2, that fits in the hole 15.3 in the clamping plate.The eccentricity appears to be 1mm. the clamping plate moves 1mm when the pin is rotated.

The main block is 3 sided and is 80.2mm square, the height is 56.1 The vertical "V" slides in the block are 65 apart, peak to peak. Hope that helps.
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Bob

Here are some photos I took today for you.
Unfortunately the markings were a bust.
There are some other photos I want to ask some questions about, but will do separate posts for clarity.

I ran out of time and forgot all about getting measurements for you. I will do that tomorrow.

QCTP
20180701_142602.jpg
20180701_142610.jpg
20180701_142650.jpg
20180701_142656.jpg
20180701_142708.jpg
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Now for some "what's this for" questions.

Photo 1
- Far side of the carriage, 2 sets of threaded holes, differing heights and differing dimensions apart.
Any idea what their purpose is?
- You will also notice 2 pieces of rag sticking up out of the cross slide. They are blocking 2 threaded holes
also of unknown purpose? They do however collect swathe and drop it into the cross slide area so I
will plug them with grub screws (if I have any that size) or small bolts.
20180701_152205.jpg


Photo 2
- Its at thing! First off I thought it was a parting tool with a broken carbide tip. But closer examination
shows the carbide does not appear to be broken. It also appears to aim way too low for a part off tool.
So what is it?
I have no idea why the forum software randomly turns photos on their sides or upside down. It is not
me doing it!
20180701_152349.jpg

20180701_152353.jpg
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
For your entertainment, look what I discovered today when I pulled the cross-slide/compound slide apart for a much needed clean and oil. This was due to the swiveling action of the compound slide not wanting to happen unless I slackened the far-too-big-to-allow-an-open-end-spanner-to-fit-all-the-way-on nuts many facet turns off.
It may be this is a factory job, but probably not. I wonder what happened to the originals?
20180701_135520.jpg

A couple of high tensile bolts, some ham fisted oxy-acetylene weld resulting in 2 dodgy
sliding (not) retainers.
Does anyone have photos of what the real things should look like please?
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
I have a steady rest, but am missing the retainer/foot device. Suggestions please as what I can substitute that will be robust enough to do the job?
20180701_152511.jpg

Another photo flipped on its side by the forum software!
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Another job after the success with the headstock was to re-zero the tailstock.
Went through the whole procedure, fresh centre point, razor blade between the centres, adjusted tailstock, all good.

Did a reface on the alloy bar, re centre drilled it, set up live centre against it and did a LHS and RHS 2 pass turn and measured.
34 thou out on RHS on 5" bar. Expletive not typed in here!
Surely the sodding headstock hasn't moved?
Rolled back the tailstock, re-turned the bar at each end unsupported and measured and 1 thou difference. Phew! :encourage:

So now the problem was, what the heck is going on? :cower:

So, the whole centre procedure again and yep, 34 thou out again...... If nothing, this thing is consistent in how far out it wants to be.

So standing there looking at it wanting to repurpose the tailstock as a boat anchor and I got thinking, "bet the bar will spring when I back off
the tailstock"?
It did.
So I decided I would play this game the tailstock way.
Bob will probably shake his head at me being unconventional again, but worth a try.
I put the tail stock back into the bar and set up the dial indicator, then adjusted the tail stock across 17 thou.
Checked by winding the centre in and out and looking for any bar deflection to confirm I had centre (also with help of dial indicator) but mainly trusting eye sight.
Then re-turned each end of the alloy bar (tailstock supported) and measured = 1 thou difference.

Ran the dial indicator, bar supported by tailstock and then without and bingo, 1 thou difference.

Then just out of curiosity I set up my peep sight device and it agreed that the tailstock was in line. Photo attached.
Due to camera not being able to cope, I could not get the photo with correct distance from peep sight to show concentric rings with just a hair of clearance between the circumference of each ring.
What you see as the white glow in the central hole is the light reflecting off the live centre in the tail stock. Add in some hand shake and I am off centre a tad when taking the photo, but you get the idea.
Samsung doubtless never expected their phone camera to be used for this sort of thing, so surprising that the results were as good as this.
20180701_163144.jpg


That was it for today. Progress is pleasing and I am satisfied the lathe is now bedded down at its new home.

Regards
Doug!
 
Last edited:

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Bob

Here are some photos I took today for you.
Unfortunately the markings were a bust.
There are some other photos I want to ask some questions about, but will do separate posts for clarity.

I ran out of time and forgot all about getting measurements for you. I will do that tomorrow.

QCTPView attachment 270880View attachment 270881View attachment 270882View attachment 270883View attachment 270884
A couple of good shots of the tool post, It looks a size smaller than mine, that doesn't matter. It's only two sided mine is three, again doesn't matter.

It is of exactly the same design, but that don't prove anything, as I said before there are at least 4 manufacturers of that design in Europe that I know off, and mostly their parts are not interchangeable.

The vertical V groove slides are crucial, and must be the same. The camlock spindles, you appear to have two of them, that's good, because they'd be one of the hardest parts to make.

The height adjustment piece, looks a bit like a cotton reel, has a tapped hole running through the middle, it screws onto the threaded rod on the topside of the tool; holder, and in conjunction with the locking spindle locates the height of the tool holder and locks into place. Another screw, the same as the square headed screws for clamping the tool, is screwed down into the spool and locks it into place.

I'd post some pics if I could, but for some reason my photo card will not download to my computer.
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Bob. Thanks for the details. I did wonder what the appropriate method was to lock the cotton reel in place.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
For your entertainment, look what I discovered today when I pulled the cross-slide/compound slide apart for a much needed clean and oil. This was due to the swiveling action of the compound slide not wanting to happen unless I slackened the far-too-big-to-allow-an-open-end-spanner-to-fit-all-the-way-on nuts many facet turns off.
It may be this is a factory job, but probably not. I wonder what happened to the originals?
View attachment 270888
A couple of high tensile bolts, some ham fisted oxy-acetylene weld resulting in 2 dodgy
sliding (not) retainers.
Does anyone have photos of what the real things should look like please.

They don't look original, I'll try to get a look at mine tomorrow, I'll take photos, but until I can sort out why I can't post them, All I can do is try.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Actually I don't need to take photos, My lathe uses socket head hex screws that screw into a "T" nut that fits in the circular groove. I can't get at them at the moment because I have a job set up that I can't move until it's finished. SHHS also make it easier to get a spanner in.
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
I got to the point I heartedly detested the SHHS in the headstock of my lathe. Especially so the ones at the gear end which are upside down. The one behind the 127/120 Tooth gear was very difficult to get into.
Normal hex head bolts would have been so much easier.
However, for my compound slide, anything would be an improvement over those nuts and mangled bolt heads.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
I have a steady rest, but am missing the retainer/foot device. Suggestions please as what I can substitute that will be robust enough to do the job?
View attachment 270889
Another photo flipped on its side by the forum software!
A piece of 1/2" plate should be sufficient. should be able to get some scrap from the fabrication guys.

Your pics being flipped are you posting from a camera or a phone, I've noticed a lot of people have trouble with flipped pics from a phone.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Now for some "what's this for" questions.

Photo 1
- Far side of the carriage, 2 sets of threaded holes, differing heights and differing dimensions apart.
Any idea what their purpose is?
- You will also notice 2 pieces of rag sticking up out of the cross slide. They are blocking 2 threaded holes
also of unknown purpose? They do however collect swathe and drop it into the cross slide area so I
will plug them with grub screws (if I have any that size) or small bolts.
View attachment 270885

Photo 2
- Its at thing! First off I thought it was a parting tool with a broken carbide tip. But closer examination
shows the carbide does not appear to be broken. It also appears to aim way too low for a part off tool.
So what is it?
I have no idea why the forum software randomly turns photos on their sides or upside down. It is not
me doing it!
View attachment 270886
View attachment 270887
Is that a brazed in tip. It looks home made and looks all wrong it's upside down and the rake is wrong, badly wrong, but it does look like a parting tool, just wrong.
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Bob.

Phone pics.
Gave up on camera years ago.
Phone is always charged and on me. 16mp quality but usually turned down to 8mp as sufficient for my needs and does not take up so much storage space.
Camera is 12mp, but does have a better lens (zoom). However, by the time the camera finishes analysing the focus/light/zodiac and whatever else it mucks around doing, any quick event has gone and I get a photo minus the subject. Phone beats it hands down there.
Likewise the torch app on the phone. Invaluable!
Camera is always not where I am because I did not intend to use it so didn't take it with me and it goes flat when not being used, so have to put it on charge for an hour first.

Doug.
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Bob - ok, weird parting tool it is then. Can't see me using it. Myself and parting tools seem to be non-compatible. I try my hardest to get them on centre and set up right. But they still chatter and misbehave.

What am I doing wrong?

Doug
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Is that a brazed in tip. It looks home made and looks all wrong it's upside down and the rake is wrong, badly wrong, but it does look like a parting tool, just wrong.
Also the two holes with the rag stuffed in are for mounting a rear tool post or other attachment.

The other two holes at the back of the carriage are for mounting a taper turning attachment
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Probably all once available for this lathe and unobtainable now. Unlikely that I will need them.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Bob.

Phone pics.
Gave up on camera years ago.
Phone is always charged and on me. 16mp quality but usually turned down to 8mp as sufficient for my needs and does not take up so much storage space.
Camera is 12mp, but does have a better lens (zoom). However, by the time the camera finishes analysing the focus/light/zodiac and whatever else it mucks around doing, any quick event has gone and I get a photo minus the subject. Phone beats it hands down there.
Likewise the torch app on the phone. Invaluable!
Camera is always not where I am because I did not intend to use it so didn't take it with me and it goes flat when not being used, so have to put it on charge for an hour first.

Doug.
Doug, have to agree with all the hassles re cameras, however I find that the camera just does take better pics, so I keep it charged if I think I might need it. plus my camera is just a little pocket snap job so it doesn't get too carried away with all the zoom analyzing and thinking, so don't miss many shots. I also have not come to terms with current phone for taking pics. (It's only two years old, give me time.) However at the moment my computer is refusing to read the cameras SD card.
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Bob. Know the SD card problem had it myself. Does your camera have a USB adaptor cable? I always download direct from phone to computer. None of that software that comes with the phone, it only makes things difficult. I just use "explorer" in Windows and treat phone as an additional disk.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Probably all once available for this lathe and unobtainable now. Unlikely that I will need them.
Current models will probably still fit, but as far as rear tool post is concerned, quite easy to make. Quite a few articles on this and other forums on making them, also on You tube. You might consider making, getting one as they are reputed to solve most parting woes.

The other thing with parting problems is loose gibs on cross and compound slide, you should always lock compound when parting
That particular parting tool you had was developed some years ago in an attempt to solve some parting problems I understood they were generally successful

I haven't had the need to do much parting since getting my new lathe, but the little I've done has been fine, Usually you just need a sharp tool, on center and square to axis, good steady feed, but if any gibbs are loose or bearings a bit slack, it won't work. Check the faces under tool post must be perfectly flat and clean everything locked down tight.
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Bob. Know the SD card problem had it myself. Does your camera have a USB adaptor cable? I always download direct from phone to computer. None of that software that comes with the phone, it only makes things difficult. I just use "explorer" in Windows and treat phone as an additional disk.
Yes I think I've got one somewhere, just have to find it. It's actually my partners camera, but she bought a new one and gave me this one, I'll ask if she knows where it is.
 

pdentrem

Active User
Registered
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
2,118
With a used/older unit, the tail stock will likely not be on center as you have found. The marks for the tail stock are not even close and as the ways and the bottom of the tail stock wear they are even further out. Another item to throw the whole thing out of true, is the ram and it’s locking mechanism. The further the ram is extended the worst things can get. Locking the ram can make a big difference.
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Pierre

There are no marks on the tailstock for centreing, all I could go on was how even it sat on the base.

Your point noted about wear. I will make sure the ways are well oiled. When you think about it,
sliding the tailstock along the ways to centre tools or drill or support long jobs would all be
a significant point of wear. Admittedly not as much as the saddle constantly moving left to
right. But down that right hand end of the lathe, the ways would easily be overlooked.

I realised I had to lock the ram when I noticed it was backing off. Lesson learnt!

Regards
Doug
 

dgrev

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 14, 2017
Messages
140
Lathe Identified!:eagerness:
20180613_114345.jpg

I am pretty well satisfied I have now identified the original manufacturer of the lathe. After much internet searching it would appear to be an early version of the Shenwai SW-900B.
It appears the company is long gone, sometime around 30 years ago.:(
They made 2 versions of the SW-900, mine with the vertical headstock control face and the SW-900 with the stepped headstock control face.
Mine does not have the light, on/off switch and green button above the threading ratio selector handles but in all other respects is obviously the same unit.
On the back of mine is a large "SW" sticker, which I think clinches it!

See attached photos.

,
Shenwai Catalogue-03.jpg
Shenwai Catalogue-02.jpg


In the photo of the grey lathe one that was auctioned in America, there is a very strange device in the tool holder, any ideas what that is?
But just as puzzling, what is the tailstock doing between the saddle and head stock?

original.jpg

106497141.jpg
 

Downunder Bob

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
Staff member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
May 16, 2016
Messages
1,168
Another point to check is the tailstock actually true to centerline of the lathe. So with the ram retracted line it up with the headstock now extend it fully and see if its still lined up, probably not. What's happening here is that if it's not lined up triue as you extend it, it will move out of alignment.
Another way to check it is with the tailstock locked to the bed, and ram fully extended and locked, set up a dial indicator on the carriage to track on the side of the ram, now wind the carriage the full length of the ram, the dial indicator will tell the sad story>

Another test while you're there loosen the ram lock and push/pull the ram side ways you'll see how much wear is in there. Then re-tighten the ram lock and slacken the tailstock/bed clamp, see how much movement is in there, be careful to not tilt the tailstock, just slide it sideways. and also twist it. This will show why you can not use the tailstock when setting up the headstock, it's just too unreliable, in fact it's just about the most unreliable part of alathe, you should always set it fresh each time you use it for anything important. If your tailstock is riding on a "V" bed then it should be pretty good in sideways movement, most of the wear will be confined to the ram. It's also pretty common for an older lathe for the tailstock to be below center, if it's over one thou, it can be shimmed.
 
[5] [7]
Top