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Hardinge Collet Closer Problem, Help!

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Mattjennl

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I recently bought a Hardinge VBS, wiring diagram DVB59VS. It will be used in my hobby business to make an operation much more efficient. It has the turret accessory.

It came with the original collets and a 5c collet adapter plus a few 5c collets. I can not get the collet closer to pull or push the draw bar to make either collet style work.

I had 2 knowledgeable machinists look at and disassemble the collet closer, one a retired machine repair specialist and the other is an active member of this forum. Neither could make it work.

I contacted a Hardinge repair company and sent photos. They said it is an original Hardinge collet closer. It is so old that parts are no longer available and they could not service it.

I found a company that could make one for more than the $820 I paid for the lathe.

Looking for help and suggestions. Anyone have one they are willing to part out?

My machine experience and knowledge is near zero.

Thanks for your input.

Brian
 

Bob Korves

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#2
Figure out how your collet closer works and then you will be able to repair it. If nothing else, convert the operation of it to a copy of other current systems, using those parts as much as possible, making the rest.
 

dlane

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#3
Hi Brian , I'm confused about the model number ,VBS "wiring diagram "Dvb59vs "wiring diagram" ?
Any how the machine has a Brown&Sharp collet spindle with a 5c collet adapter to use 5c
B&S collets push to close 5c pull to close , need to figure out how to get it to pull the collets.
It would be nice to see a parts diagram for both B&S and 5c closers to see if you can get the
B&S closer to pull the collets. Dose the B&S closer assembly have any model # on it ?
 

Silverbullet

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We need pictures of all the parts that operate the closer . You may have to pick one style of collets if your trying to make use of both there are differing items that work to either push or pull to close. I know the B&S collets are a pita to get set up . 5c closers are relatively easy to get set up. Lever type are the usual on Hardinage . Pictures of your head stock too will help .
There are some YouTube videos of others with similar problems . I have some knowledge on the 5c lever type.
 

Ulma Doctor

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#5
i can shed a little light on the subject...

I went to Mattjennl's place and i saw the lathe with the collet closer installed on Saturday.
here is my understanding and observation.
there are 2 adapters for the spindle, 1 B&S adapter, and 1 5C adapter- (and an end collar for the spindle that is missing)
the B&S collet adapter has a threaded tail, but no threads present in the collet.
the adapter is inserted into the spindle and the draw tube is installed and the threads are engaged to the spindle adapter.
the chosen collet is installed into the spindle adapter and a spindle nut is used to retain the collet.
you'll then adjust the engagement of the spindle adapter threads, and therefore the grip on the work
the collet closer lever is operated towards the headstock to tighten the collet and work.

when installing the 5c collet adapter, i tried to fiddle with the draw tube engagement in and out- a million ways it seemed.
the problem was the the 5c needs to have the collet closer lever to be operated to the aft in order to attempt to close the collet.
there was not enough throw on the closer to fully engage and spring the collet into place- the collet never seated in the adapter piece successfully.
i have never been accused of being the sharpest tool in the shed, but i have operated machines with 5c collet closers- the all operate to the Aft
i don't have experience with Hardinge lathes other than the half hour i tried to make the collet system operate.
it seems like either i'm missing something, or the collet closer is missing something :oops:

here is links to youtube videos of the same type of closer
 

Ulma Doctor

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#6
Mattjennl was good enough to send me pictures of his closer to show the folks.
if there are any opinions or thoughts, they would greatly be appreciated. :big grin:
thank you all in advance!

b1.jpg b2.jpg b3.jpg


here is the spindle side below, the spindle adapter goes in the center bore
b4.jpg
 

Bob Korves

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Put shims between the left end of the drawbar and the collar the handle pushes against it to tighten it? Unless there is an adjustment for that...
 

Ulma Doctor

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Hi Bob,
The closer operates by pushing the closer lever toward the headstock when using the B&S collet system
 

Mattjennl

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#9
Derrick,

The Hardinge model id plate shows the model number as VBS. On that same plate it states "wiring diagram" followed by DVB 59 VS. There are no model numbers on the collet closer.

Both Jim and Mike ( you know them) looked, took apart and can't figure it out. Hardingerepair.com said it is all original, is obsolete and they are not able to fix or rebuild it. They gave some suggestions for folks with older lathes they may be parting out that I am following up on.

Mike, thanks for the help posting the photos. More photos of different views or the inside parts are available.
 

Billh50

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#10
The threads on the spindle are for a collar to remove the adapters from the spindle.
The lever on the closer needs to be forward when a 5c collet is inserted in the spindle. By pushing the small spring loaded lever and turning the closer tube you can adjust the closing to give a grip that causes the large lever to lock back when pushed to the rear. You should feel it lock back. Do this with a piece in the collet so you don't spring the collet.
 

Silverbullet

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Do you have the nose piece for the 5c , it fits in the front of the spindle, with the nose piece in the spindle slide a collet in align the groove with the pin inside. On the lever part the flat pin in the adjuster needs to be pressed to disengage the locking collar. Then spin the closer tube to tighten the collet. If the tube is to long it will not tighten correctly. Some are adjustable the spindle tube to the adjuster , but you'll have to take it apart to move it shorter to tighten. If your trying to set up for both its not going to work. 5c collets the lever is pushed to the left . The B& S closer you have to adjust the front more then the back they work but are more of a pain in my opinion.

To use 5c it's adjust tightness to the part with the tube , threads on collet are the length adjustment to tighten. After adjusting push lever to left if not tight enough unlatch press release pin tighten another half turn press lever on adjuster to set it in notch. Press lever to left if the lever is to tight to latch press the little latch lever and back off pressure a few notches till you can lock the lever to the left. It should click and hold till you pull it to release it.
 
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