Harold Hall advanced grinding rest

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Technical Ted

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Although I just recently finished up his simple grinding rest, I decided to make the advance rest now. Two reasons: 1) I really like the simple one and the capabilities that it has, but know that the advanced rest would be easier to set angles and be a little nicer to use. 2) I was looking for a nice mill project to do to test out and use my new to me milling machine!

So, as with the simple rest, I started drawing things up in Fusion 360 and started making chips. I usually draw things up as I go and mainly try to keep ahead of the machining. Started with the table, but put that on hold until I receive the flat head hex head screws I ordered so I could fit the countersinks with the actual screws I will be using (#8-32). Today, I squared up and dovetailed the two female slide parts (upper and lower). I'll drill/tap these for the gib screws tomorrow and post pictures of the parts I have so far as long as I don't get too tied up watching football!

So far, I've been happy with the mill. Runs nice and it's a lot easier to crank around than my B&S 2B mill!

Ted

Advance Rest.jpg
 

HBilly1022

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I'll be watching this one. I've been thinking of doing the same thing after I finished the simpler rest.

By the way, you don't need to wait for the screws to arrive. For countersink depths there are tables that list the depth and width of the countersunk hole. I discovered this when I made the simpler rest and found it very useful because I could just use the "Z" dro to drill to the correct depth, the first time. No trial and error. I think the info was in Machinery's Handbook but I'm sure you could also Google it.
 

brino

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I am watching too.
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Thanks for sharing this build.
-brino
 

Technical Ted

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Thanks I've got the charts but to be truthful never use them. Might with Fusion but not while making chips. Fusion actually has a hole function with a countersink option. I'm more comfortable doing it the hard way! :) No DRO just dials and mechanical stops. Old habits die hard. If the setup allows I'll set the stop after fitting the first one and go from there. A DRO would be nice but if it's too easy it would take all the fun out of it! o_O

Ted
 

kvt

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Ted, which book are you getting the design out of. I have the Milling for Home machinist which is the USA reprint.
Are you making it Metric or converting size over to Inch.

I will also be watching this one real close as wanted to start on it but
I kind of s____ at Fusion 360 or any of the drawing programs, and what is in the book is not that great.
 

Technical Ted

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The book I'm using is "Milling a Complete Course"; the original. The drawings in the book certainly are adequate, but I am converting to inch as I go. I usually round to the nearest 1", 3/4", 1/2", etc. when things allow, sometimes nearest 32nd or even 64th. Doing things like this in Fusion 360 is great practice and I'm drawing things much quicker and easier now than I was when I first started so stick with it. You could, though, build it in metric or just convert directly to inch and write the inch dimensions next to the metric ones in the book. I'm sure that would work out fine.

Ted
 

Technical Ted

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Thanks for the heads up. I did see that and already printed out the drawing for the 3 mods. You can probably see in my CAD drawing I drew the thinner arms. Thanks for the heads up thought. It's nice to know you guys on this list have my back!

Ted
 
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Alan H.

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Ted, curious as to the Fusion model you have created. How many "components" does that assembly have?

BTW, here's what the book looks like, I just ordered it.
1516545735895.png
 
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Technical Ted

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The drawing has a ways to go to be complete, I still have a lot of components to add, but right now I have I think 10 components. Each individual part is a component, like one side arm is a separate component. The other side arm is a different component even though I copied the first one I drew up. I did create a "Hardware" sub-assembly which contains all the hardware components (like screws, nuts, etc.). I just did this to keep things organized instead of having hardware sprinkled throughout. Now, I could very well have structured some of the components into sub-assemblies i.e. a top dovetail slide, a bottom dovetail slide, a gib, (3) set screws, (3) nuts as a slide sub-assembly, but decided to just use a "flat" structure because it's a pretty simple assembly as a whole. If it were more involved, I most likely would have done so.

As you probably know, in Fusion, a body or group of bodies forming one solid, makes up a component (part) and then the components (parts) make up the assembly, or sub-assembly depending on your structure. An assembly can have multiple sub-assemblies or no sub-assemblies. You build things just like you would make up a Bill of Materials (BOM). You can make a BOM fully "indented" (showing sub-assemblies/structures) or build it "flat" as I did with this model. It's the choice of the person making the model. On very complex assemblies using sub-assemblies where possible would definitely help organization and make a lot of sense.

And, yes, that is the book I have. Very inexpensive.

Thanks for the interest!
Ted
 

kvt

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Here is the one I got, Was supposed to be updated etc for USA but does not look any diff from others that I have gotten. milling for machinist.jpg
 

Technical Ted

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Not too much to show, but here's the progress so far. Finished the two dovetailed slide swivel pieces, base plate started and the top slide piece ready to dovetail. Since the top of this piece is one of the bearing surfaces for the dovetail I want to skim it in the same setup as I dovetail it so everything is dead aligned. That only leaves less than 1/8" to hold the piece in a vise which, for my import vise anyways, is a tall order, so I made the piece with extra on each end so I can tie it down to the table, dovetail the sides and skim the top in one setup. After, I'll cut the extra off each end and mill the ends to finish length.

Ted

GR Parts.jpg
 

Technical Ted

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A little more progress... both dovetail slides done complete with gibs.

I might buy some nyloc nuts for the gib screws but the double locks will have to do for now since they are all I had on hand. I might not even need a locking nut since a single nut might lock the set screw just fine, but Harold suggests either a locking nut or two jam nuts so this is what I'm starting with. If one nut seems to work OK that's what I'll probably end up with. Time and testing will tell.

The two male dovetails gave me a chance to try out the carbide insert dovetail cutter I made. It was too big for the female slides.

Now I've got to do some more CAD work so I can carry on!

Ted

Slides Done.jpg Cutting dovetail.jpg Dovetail Cutter.jpg
 

Technical Ted

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Got all the mill work done for now... just have the base angle left to do, but I'm going to change that design a little once I get everything made and assembled to better accommodate the use of the two mag bases. Using them is really sweet on the simpler rest. I'll most likely make a different angle base for the simpler one as well; maybe at the same time since they will probably be similar if not identical.

Pictures of the side arms and spacer/angle blocks below, along with the finished base plate attached to the upper dovetail slide.

Now, a little more Fusion 360 work and move onto the lathe work.

Thanks for the interest,
Ted

20180128_131605.jpg 20180128_131655.jpg
 

kvt

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By the way, what steel are you using on this project.
 

Technical Ted

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By the way, what steel are you using on this project.
Well, that's a good question on some of it! :) Everything has been on hand and some of it mystery metal. It's really a Heinz 57. Some A36 plate, some 1045 key stock for one of the dovetails, some mystery metal. For the lathe stock it will be some 1020, 1018 and I might make the dials out of aluminum, not sure, maybe steel??? Whatever I have that's around the right size stock. I like using up short pieces when I can. Aluminum is nicer to knurl and scribe the division lines in, but we'll see what I have. I don't have much aluminum around.

I've never been too fussy what material I use on projects unless I have good cause to do so. I did buy some cast iron for the bearings when I made the end mill sharpening fixture since I felt there was a benefit doing so for that application.

Ted
 

kvt

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I do not have much short pieces around so I was trying to figure out what I wanted or needed to purchase. What I will prob have once I find it is Mystery metal as well. Thinking about just go to the scrap yard and see if I can find anything. Have not even looked a the fixtures yet as have to get a rest made first.
 

Technical Ted

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I guess as a general guide pretty much any mild carbon would work fine. If buying, some of the free machining stuff would be nice. But, it sounds like you and I have similar thinking with just going to the scrap yard and see what you can find cheap or free. Some of the material I use came off my dad's old farm and has been sitting outside for years... very pitted and rusty. But, once you take the top layer off, it's as good as new! :)

Both my dad and I used to work at a local, now closed, boiler manufacturer Foster Wheeler. They had all kinds of scrap that we both got over the years and some of it was not plain old carbon. They used a lot of high temperature plate, bar stock, etc.. and I still run across pieces of it (non-marked) when grabbing something for a project. 99% of the time I use HSS tooling and when I see the blue chips coming off something I just slow things down and give the material the respect it deserves... It all works fine.

Ted
 

HBilly1022

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Looks like 3 of us have the same thinking. Pretty much everything I make comes from scrap yard steel of unknown composition too. Unlike you though I can't get any of it for free, around here it's $0.40 / lb for scrap steel. Also like you most of my steel is outside getting that nice brownish color on it.

Once again I follow in your footsteps, as I too have started making the advanced rest. So far just got the main blocks cut and milled to starting dimensions. I'm waiting for some dovetail cutters to arrive from China before I can cut the dovetails. I have a larger dovetail cutter but it's too big for this project. I did get a couple of the leadscrews made too and was dreading making those because it took me forever to make the one for the simple rest. I turned that one with full extension and unsupported. I had to take very light cuts with a sharply honed tool and it was extremely slow going. This time I found a better method, called step turning and that made my day. Weird how sometimes the simplest things get me excited.:)
 

Technical Ted

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Not sure what size you made your lead screws, but I make mine #10-24.

What I do is make them just a tad longer, put a center in the end and turn the end down smaller than the root of the thread. That way you can use a center in the tailstock to support the piece and you'll have some room for your threading tool at the start of the thread. Then, I put them in a collet and trim that extra end off, or you could just saw it off or whatever.

Or, you could cheat and use a die! o_O

Please keep us posted either in this thread or start a new one,
Ted
 

kvt

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Did not make it out to look for some metal this week end. Wet and both wife and I had colds. Will try to get out this weekend. and find some chunks. Another member in told me another place to get scraps, that may be better. I also need to go past a machine shop and check with them. Found one close to me. Not many around where I live.
 

HBilly1022

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Not sure what size you made your lead screws, but I make mine #10-24.

What I do is make them just a tad longer, put a center in the end and turn the end down smaller than the root of the thread. That way you can use a center in the tailstock to support the piece and you'll have some room for your threading tool at the start of the thread. Then, I put them in a collet and trim that extra end off, or you could just saw it off or whatever.

Or, you could cheat and use a die! o_O

Please keep us posted either in this thread or start a new one,
Ted
I made mine #10-24 too. I thought the 78 mm length would be too long to turn down to 0.190" even with the end supported, so I used the new to me, method of step turning to get the diameter right and then I did the unthinkable .......... I used a die, shhhhh don't tell anyone.

I'll give your method a try just and see how it works for me, for future reference. Assuming I can remember if it worked, when I finally need to use it. lol
 

Technical Ted

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I made mine #10-24 too. I thought the 78 mm length would be too long to turn down to 0.190" even with the end supported, so I used the new to me, method of step turning to get the diameter right and then I did the unthinkable .......... I used a die, shhhhh don't tell anyone.

I'll give your method a try just and see how it works for me, for future reference. Assuming I can remember if it worked, when I finally need to use it. lol
I haven't had any trouble turning or threading any of these screws as long as I had a center in the end. Of course I take light cuts with a nice, sharp HSS tool. Haven't tried carbide, but even with that, if the cuts are light enough, I would think you'd be OK.

Step turning is a find way to go as well. Whatever works out best for you and your equipment. Just have fun!

Ted
 

Technical Ted

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Looks like your almost done.
Well, I've got most of the "big show" items done, but there are still quite a few parts to make and a lot of putter work to do, like dimple drill parts, making the dials with graduations, altering and making the base angle, making and locating handles for the locking screws, cleaning and fitting, etc.. Still have the fences to make too. It will keep me busy for a while yet. :)

Ted
 

HBilly1022

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Well, I've got most of the "big show" items done, but there are still quite a few parts to make and a lot of putter work to do, like dimple drill parts, making the dials with graduations, altering and making the base angle, making and locating handles for the locking screws, cleaning and fitting, etc.. Still have the fences to make too. It will keep me busy for a while yet. :)

Ted
I know what you mean. The little things seem to take a lot of time ....... but for me, it all seems to take a lot of time. Enjoyable though.

I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.
1) How did you turn the small leadscrews using the TS? I tried to set that up the other day and found the live center would interfere with the QCTP unless I hung the cutting tool way out from the holder.
2) How do you plan to attach the handles to the locking nuts? I see Harold's plans don't show them being threaded, so I'm guessing it is a press fit. Not sure if I would be able to get the fit good enough to make it stay in place.
 

Technical Ted

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I know what you mean. The little things seem to take a lot of time ....... but for me, it all seems to take a lot of time. Enjoyable though.

I have a couple of questions for you, if you don't mind.
1) How did you turn the small leadscrews using the TS? I tried to set that up the other day and found the live center would interfere with the QCTP unless I hung the cutting tool way out from the holder.
2) How do you plan to attach the handles to the locking nuts? I see Harold's plans don't show them being threaded, so I'm guessing it is a press fit. Not sure if I would be able to get the fit good enough to make it stay in place.
1- Well, it probably depends on how big your live center's body is, but you'll be taking such light cuts on that small diameter #10-24 screw that hanging the tool out shouldn't be an issue. I still had it in the holder, so here's a picture of the threading tool I used to thread them. Just use as large of a tool bit as you can and I bet you'll do just fine.

2- Harold says in there someplace that he suggests a two part epoxy. I've got some JB Weld that I'll be using. There really won't be much pressure on these so it shouldn't take much to hold them in there. Not much room for tapping the hole if you wanted to go that route. I might put a couple of grooves in the handle and the hole in the head will be rough from the drill so between those surfaces and the JB Weld I don't think it will ever come apart. I'll clean them good with Acetone before I apply the epoxy.

Ted

20180131_111530.jpg
 

HBilly1022

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Thanks Ted. When I think about it, it's obvious that the tool stick out won't matter with light cuts. Duh!!

I guess I should read the text in his book instead of just looking at the drawings and going from there. I've always been one of those guys that doesn't read the directions until I run into a problem.
 
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