Harold Hall simple grinding rest

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Technical Ted

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Just finished phase I of making Harold Hall's simple grinding rest... Drew it up in Fusion 360 first and converted it to inch units from metric. Now, to buy a dedicated bench grinder and make the required accessories for tool holding and end mill sharpening and get everything set up and operational!

This should keep me busy for a while!

Ted

20171004_161628.jpg 20171004_161703.jpg Simple T&C Grinding Rest v18.png
 

richl

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Nice job, looks like you stoned everything too. His grinder rest is on my list of tooling I want to make.

Rich
 

kvt

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Nice job on that you would not by chance have the converted drawings or the 360 file we could get would you.
 

davidpbest

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Great job. Any possibility you could share the dimensioned drawings or the F360 model?
 

Technical Ted

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Nice job on that you would not by chance have the converted drawings or the 360 file we could get would you.
Out of respect for Harold I wouldn't feel right giving out his drawings. The complete plans are in his book "Tool and Cutter Sharpening" and I think I got it on Amazon for a little over $10. Pretty cheap.

If I designed it myself I would be more than happy to share. I don't get an income from selling books. Actually, going through that conversion process helped me get a better handle on metric measurements, so working from his original drawings was a plus.

Sorry,
Ted
 

richl

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I have 3 copies, or I should say 1, I wore out the other 2. I can convert them myself, just being lazy.

Rich
 

HBilly1022

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Nice job! Did you pick up a set of magnetic bases for mounting the rest, like Harold does in his video? Looks like a great idea.

I have 5 of Harold's books and visit his website frequently. He's an ingenious person and I'm amazed at the designs he comes up with. I've already made a few of his tools; the lining tool, his end mill sharpening fixture (ends only), slitting saw sharpening jig and I'm currently about 3/4 of the way through completion of his end mill sharpening jig (for both the ends and flutes). After completion of the end mill jig I was going to start on the complex grinding rest but have now changed my mind and will go with the simpler one as you did.

I did the same as you and converted all hole sizes and threading to imperial sizes. But did it in pencil on the drawings in the book. Computer would be much better method. Wish I could get my hands on an inexpensive metric drill index, then I wouldn't bother with the conversions.

What did you use for the 1" plastic ball and where did you get it? Does it need to be a hard plastic?
 

Technical Ted

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Nice job! Did you pick up a set of magnetic bases for mounting the rest, like Harold does in his video? Looks like a great idea.

I have 5 of Harold's books and visit his website frequently. He's an ingenious person and I'm amazed at the designs he comes up with. I've already made a few of his tools; the lining tool, his end mill sharpening fixture (ends only), slitting saw sharpening jig and I'm currently about 3/4 of the way through completion of his end mill sharpening jig (for both the ends and flutes). After completion of the end mill jig I was going to start on the complex grinding rest but have now changed my mind and will go with the simpler one as you did.

I did the same as you and converted all hole sizes and threading to imperial sizes. But did it in pencil on the drawings in the book. Computer would be much better method. Wish I could get my hands on an inexpensive metric drill index, then I wouldn't bother with the conversions.

What did you use for the 1" plastic ball and where did you get it? Does it need to be a hard plastic?
I just ordered a dedicated bench grinder last night ( Powertec BG600 6-inch - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004A8ZA94/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 ) and plan on ordering two mag bases today. I've already got some old stones that were used by the tool grinders where I used to work so all I have to do there is make the bushings for them for mounting. I also have to figure out where I'm going to put this setup... maybe on a table with wheels so I can move it around to get it away from machines especially when dressing a wheel.

I bought his book "Milling a Complete Course" as well and most likely will build his advanced rest in the future. I can have one mounted for each wheel on my grinder. I started with the simple one since I had the material on hand for it and it was a quicker build. When I converted dimensions to inch I rounded to the nearest 1/64" or 1/32" inch instead of just a direct conversion, always rounding up. This certainly wasn't necessary, but it seemed to make sense to me at the time. I also went with a little bigger screw sizes when I could (#6-32 being the smallest I went) because I had the screws and taps and bigger is easier and safer if you can use them.

I didn't use a plastic ball, I made one out of steel with the ball turner I made (see my post on this site for that). I sized the ball so that the two mating clamping pieces were parallel. I wondered about using plastic and wondered whether Harold had a "gripping" reason for plastic or if the plastic ball was just more readily available. I do have some Delrin I could have used, but decided to try steel first and see how that worked out. Steel seems to be working quite well, but time will tell since I haven't actually used it yet!

Are you or did you go with cast iron for the bearings for the end mill jig? I don't have any CI, but I do have both brass and bronze and was thinking about using some of it. I like to use any material I have on hand if I can since half the fun of making this stuff is to make it on the cheap out of what you have. I'm thinking that I'll have less than $100 in this project including the bench grinder and I don't think that's too bad for being able to sharpen your own cutting tools.

Ted
 

HBilly1022

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I did the same thing with the threading sizes, bigger is safer, as long as there's enough "meat" on the part.

I did use CI for the bearings. I didn't have any other materials I could use, other than steel, so I ended up buying some CI from a machine shop.

I didn't use a plastic ball, I made one out of steel with the ball turner I made (see my post on this site for that).
Crap, now I have to make a ball turner too, lol. Odd thing about this hobby (for me anyways) is that I don't have any real work to machine and spend pretty much all of my time making tools for some future project or making things to maintain the stuff I already have.
 

Technical Ted

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As with specifying plastic for the ball, I wonder if Harold had reason for CI for the end mill fixture bearings... maybe he felt CI would pick up less grinding dust than bronze/brass??? Or maybe CI just makes a better bearing when lubricant is not used??? Since Harold is retired I don't want to bother him and ask him directly...

Thoughts?
Ted
 

HBilly1022

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I asked the CI question a while ago, when I was in the middle of the jig build and the response I recall from the forum members, was that dissimilar metals are better in this sort of application and that there is something about CI that provides a sort of lubricating quality.

I figured that it takes me so long to make anything like this, that I might as well use the recommended materials, especially in this case, since it is epoxied to the steel. If I used something else and it didn't work well then I would end up having to remake a good portion of the jig. I guess that's not all bad though since it gives me more time in the shop.:)

Harold replied to one of my posts a few months ago (unsolicited) and I suspect he may not mind you sending him a PM.
 

Silverbullet

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Use to be a big compliment having someone copy a person's build . But when they start selling there's where the problem comes up . I've had another machinist copy items I made down to the three undercuts my little trademark my father taught me to do . Pop used them so his tools didn't walk away . I just incorporated into the tools I built. The unscrupulous so called machinist stole my design and sold I don't know how many. But he saw them at a dealer selling the ones I made and I guess bought one to copy.
Not much of man to steal from a guy in a wheelchair trying to live.
Nobody cares if your doing your own , but don't go advertising has the maker and selling .
 
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Alan H.

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Out of respect for Harold I wouldn't feel right giving out his drawings. The complete plans are in his book "Tool and Cutter Sharpening" and I think I got it on Amazon for a little over $10. Pretty cheap.

If I designed it myself I would be more than happy to share. I don't get an income from selling books. Actually, going through that conversion process helped me get a better handle on metric measurements, so working from his original drawings was a plus.

Sorry,
Ted
Which book do you have? This one from 2017 (updated by editor of HSM):
upload_2017-10-8_13-40-52.png

or this one from 2007 (original)?
upload_2017-10-8_13-41-25.png

EDIT: the first one is mentioned on Harold's website as being updated for the American market.
 
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Alan H.

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For those that aren't familiar with Harold's web site, here it is.

In searching his website, he mentions his book is being updated for the US market. That's the one in the first photo above. Available from Amazon and others.
 

Technical Ted

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I bought the original. I wonder if the updated one already has the drawings converted to inch dimensions???

Ted
 

Technical Ted

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Update 10/11/2017: Had to take a break from this project. My B&S 2B horizontal mill motor started making a funny noise. Tore into it. A very old (1915 vintage) Westinghouse ARS repulsion single phase motor that my dad gave me with bronze bushing with oil rings. The output end bearing was so warn that the rotor was hitting the stator. Not good. So, I was reminded how nasty bronze can be to machine! Didn't take me long to remember I needed very sharp cutting tools. But, that's another story. Mill's back together running great. The motor will probably last another 100 years!!!

Got the new grinder the other day (seems very nice for the price) and started to make up a base for everything. Not knowing how high, big or where to place things since I haven't used it yet, I decided to make up a prototype setup to start with and once I get everything made and have used things I will make the final build. So, instead of using my nice birch plywood, I started with a scrap piece of 3/4" that used to be part of a counter top in my kitchen before I remodeled. Had a couple pieces of 1/8" steel plate 13-1/2" square and just laid them on top without fastening down. Just made a couple of hold down type clamps to secure the mag bases since I don't know how high and long I want things. They work fantastic! Raised the grinder up on a couple pieces of scrap and bolted the grinder down to the plywood with carriage bolts.

All I did with the grinder was swap the coarse and fine wheels. Didn't even dress the wheels. Found an old Chinese end mill I had with the corners totally destroyed, put some dye on it to help pick up the old grind (what was left) and took a good 1/16" inch off the end. Worked great! End mill cut like it was new. It will be even better with better wheels that are dressed!

So, now to draw up some accessories in Fusion 360 and get to work making them.

Thanks for reading,
Ted

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HBilly1022

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Looks like the rest works well!!

Appears I'm following in your footsteps, as I am now going to make a ball turner, so I can make a 1" ball, so I can make the same rest, so I can keep my tools sharp, so I can make more tools, to make or maintain tools.:)

Maybe someday I'll have a real project to make use of these things.
 

Technical Ted

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Looks like the rest works well!!

Appears I'm following in your footsteps, as I am now going to make a ball turner, so I can make a 1" ball, so I can make the same rest, so I can keep my tools sharp, so I can make more tools, to make or maintain tools.:)

Maybe someday I'll have a real project to make use of these things.
I'm thinking I'll start working my way into some type of model making. Not sure what yet, but I enjoy making functional assemblies. But, like you, there are still items for the shop on my wishlist. I also have a wood shop that I've been neglecting for some time and am thinking I'd like to make a nice wooden toolbox for my machine shop this winter! Metal is still my favorite. Got a lot of the wood working tools from my father. He made a lot of furniture, cabinets, clocks, too many things to list...

Ted
 
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Alan H.

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I bought the original. I wonder if the updated one already has the drawings converted to inch dimensions???

Ted
Ted, I received the book today and the drawings are NOT in inches but are still metric (mm). Not sure how the book was updated for the American market but anyway we have our answer.
 

Rata222

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If I designed it myself I would be more than happy to share. I don't get an income from selling books. Actually, going through that conversion process helped me get a better handle on metric measurements, so working from his original drawings was a plus.
Ted
Geat job on your tool rest. I am in the process of drawing up Harold Hall's Simple Grinding Rest in SolidWorks and coverting the prints to Imperial dimensions. I am just curious as what thread you used for the crossfeed and infeed screws 12-28?, 10-32? Did you pin threaded rod into the shaft ends or were you succesful in turning and threading the rods to size. Anythings you would do different?
Jim
 

Doubleeboy

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Ted, I received the book today and the drawings are NOT in inches but are still metric (mm). Not sure how the book was updated for the American market but anyway we have our answer.
I got my new updated book a few weeks ago, metric, what a bummer. Still good for the photos though.
 

Technical Ted

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Ted
Geat job on your tool rest. I am in the process of drawing up Harold Hall's Simple Grinding Rest in SolidWorks and coverting the prints to Imperial dimensions. I am just curious as what thread you used for the crossfeed and infeed screws 12-28?, 10-32? Did you pin threaded rod into the shaft ends or were you succesful in turning and threading the rods to size. Anythings you would do different?
Jim
I used #10-24 for those. Worked out well. I did single point them on my lathe and then pinned them to the knurled knobs with small split roll pins.

As far and doing anything different, I don't think so... This is a good size for 1/2" and smaller tools. Maybe down the road I might make the advance rest, but make it larger to handle maybe up to 1" tools (i.e. end mills, etc) and then make a set of the associated holders/fixtures larger as well. It would be nice to have both sizes since a larger one wouldn't be as nice for the smaller tools and vice versa...

I haven't updated this thread, but I have finished the round and square holders Harold had in the book. I'm currently working on the end mill side fixture. I drew it up in Fusion 360 and have only finished the base and the two bearing supports. I assembled them and then line bored for the bearings which are next on my list to make. I did locate a piece of cast iron for them. I modified the spindle it to use 2 MT collets instead of having to make them since I have a full set for my Bridgeport M head. I also will make the spindle a little longer since a lot of my end mills are longer.

With winter coming, I have to take a break from this project and get ready for the winter weather and snow! So, it will be a week or two before I can get back to work on the fixture.

Ted

End Mill Sharpening Fixture v13.jpg

End Mill Sharpening Fixture v13a.png
 

Rata222

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I used #10-24 for those. Worked out well. I did single point them on my lathe and then pinned them to the knurled knobs with small split roll pins.
Thanks for the direction. . I felt this was a great project to get some practice on my "new to me" milling machine.
I am leery about trying to cut and thread the slender shafts. (No follower rest). I may try - but may end up using threaded rod.
Please continue to post updates - this is a great project.
Jim
 

tweinke

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Nice job!
Going to be on my list of things to do for sure.
 
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Technical Ted

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Thanks for the direction. . I felt this was a great project to get some practice on my "new to me" milling machine.
I am leery about trying to cut and thread the slender shafts. (No follower rest). I may try - but may end up using threaded rod.
Please continue to post updates - this is a great project.
Jim
I turned the shafts and threaded them without a follower. Just take light cuts and make sure your tools are nice and sharp, especially the threading tool. I use HSS tools. Negative carbide tools might give you a little trouble since they would push the shaft away more. Depending on the size of your tail stock center, you might have to turn the end down a short distance just under the minor diameter of the thread and center drill it. Remove this when the shaft is complete. This will give room for your threading tool at the start of the thread. Also, especially on small diameters, I don't cut a relief at the end of the threads. I use my hockey puck indicator, running the lathe at a slow speed, and just quickly withdraw the tool when I get to the end. You can progressively withdraw it a little sooner as you go. I think this might lend itself to a stronger shaft rather than having a relief cut into the shaft giving it a stress point to flex/break. Either way, I think it looks better! :)

This is proving to be a very nice project and what I feel will be a very useful implement. I've made/sharpened my own cutting tools free hand for years, but as I get older I'm sure I won't be as steady as I was and this will be handy. Being able to sharpen end mills will be 20171108_073357.jpg a huge plus!

Good luck and have fun!
Ted
 

Technical Ted

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Update: Had some time this morning and finally finished up the parts for the end mill side grinding fixture! Now, just finial cleaning, fitting, assembly and lapping the spindle in more after final bearing assembly. Of course this will have to wait a few days now since I have family plans for Thanksgiving and the weekend!

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
Ted

End Mill Grinding Fixture Parts.jpg
 

Technical Ted

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All assembled, lapped and tested out. Works great! The operator needs more practice, but the fixture works very well. As with anything, a little experience using a new tool goes a long ways. My initial test was with an end mill I found in the scrap bucket at work years ago that was broken right in half. I figured shorter would be easier for the sides to start with and I had nothing to lose if I made a mistake since it was scrap in the first place. Cut just fine after sharpening even with the grinder's original undressed wheels!

Now, to make the larger flanges for my better grinding wheels (cup and saucer type) and make up some angle cards as suggested by Harold as they will make the angle adjustments/setups much easier. For the first test I used a protractor and eye balled the setups. Then, sharpen a few cutters and use it for a little while before the final mounting of the grinder and steel plates and a few other finishing touches.

It's been a fun project!
Ted

20171126_132326.jpg 20171126_135241.jpg 20171126_135354.jpg 20171126_135442.jpg
 

HBilly1022

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Very nice work!!

I see you made the spindle longer than the plans called for. Wish I had done that too. Mine works using the stock dimensions but there isn't much to get hold of at the back end. I think Harold must use smaller and shorter end mills than me. I had to make a second, longer, indexing support at the front end, to run along the end mill flutes. The stock one was too short to work with my end mills.
 
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