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Benji

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When I did Nelsons SB DP head I put a 100W light bulb (incandencent, not CFl) that got it nice and hot.
I would think a couple of them in the bell would help.
 

woodtickgreg

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When I did Nelsons SB DP head I put a 100W light bulb (incandencent, not CFl) that got it nice and hot.
I would think a couple of them in the bell would help.
When the garage is closed up it gets anywhere from 100 to 120 in there in the summer, Think how hot it gets in a closed up car.
 

Benji

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My garage is just the opposit.

Its a garage under, One side is in the ground, one side is a basement wall.
The basement has 3 sides in the ground. On a hot day, today was 92, I am at about 75 in the garage if I keep the doors closed. If I open them I get ambiant temperature.

Free Air conditioning.
 

woodtickgreg

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headstock-teardown-003.jpg headstock-teardown-002.jpg headstock-teardown-004.jpg headstock-teardown-001.jpg headstock-teardown-005.jpg I finally got some time to work on the lathe again. Here are some pics before I started to tear it down, you can see the primer overspray that the previous owner sprayed all over everything. And a pick of the only damaged gear that I have found, leadscrew drive gear, and I already have the replacement from ebay! You can also see the rust on the spindle cone pully and one little spot that I hit with some 320 sand paper as a test. I think I will clean the pullys up before I tear it down so the headstock can hold it and allow me to rotate it.
 
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woodtickgreg

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headstock-teardown-006.jpg headstock-teardown-007.jpg headstock-teardown-008.jpg headstock-teardown-009.jpg Here's a few more pics, the compound base still has the scrape marks, the threading dial was very rusty but it cleaned up pretty good. I do think I will need to find a new gear for the threading dial, it looks quite worn and does not always engage with the lead screw. Also a couple of pics of the ways right by the headstock, In the pic they look rusted and pitted but they are not that bad, it's mostly just a discoloration. A light sanding with some 600 grit and some oil and they clean right up. There are a few small nicks on the back way, judge the size of the nicks by the pencil point for referance.
 
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woodtickgreg

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headstock-teardown-010.jpg headstock-teardown-011.jpg Everything came apart on the teardown without a hitch, taper pins popped right out, leadscrew gear came right off, back gear came out, all gear assemblies came off without any trouble at all. So I proceeded to clean up the spindle cone pully before I removed the spindle assy. I scrapped most of the rust off easy peasy with a razor blade and then sanded the pully surfaces with 220 and then 320 sand paper. I think the cleaned up very nice. I don't think I really need to sand any finer as the belt might slip? The belt will probably polish the surfaces with use any way. Here's a couple pics of the progress so far.
 
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woodtickgreg

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headstock-teardown-012.jpg headstock-teardown-013.jpg headstock-teardown-014.jpg headstock-teardown-015.jpg Everything has been going so good, almost to good? And then I found a surprise when I pulled the bearing caps for the spindle. I have never seen anything like this, the original sleeve bearings are gone and someone replaced them with the half bearings you see in the pics. 2 things come to mind, either it was a repair for bad bearings or possibly an upgrade, or both? I will say this, there was absolutely no play in the spindle and it turned smoothly. But drilling and tapping the cast headstock and bearing caps to secure the bearings with screws? I do not know what to think about this. My first thought is look for another headstock and replace it, but I am not so sure this repair is a bad thing, there are shims still being used and cappilary oil wicks are still in place, no grooves or signs of wear either on the bearings or on the shaft. They did call these old lathes engine lathes and the repair is very much like a crankshaft bearing replacement. The oil return holes are not obstructed. I would like to here the opinions of others on this. Run it as it is? or replace it? Here's some pics.
 
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woodtickgreg

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painting-bed-001.jpg painting-bed-002.jpg painting-bed-003.jpg painting-bed-004.jpg painting-bed-005.jpg painting-bed-006.jpg painting-bed-007.jpg painting-bed-008.jpg painting-bed-009.jpg painting-bed-010.jpg Well I found a replacement head stock complete with spindle, cone pullys, and bull gear, complete with bearings and caps and the bearing adjusters. I should get it sometime next week. In the mean time I have kept busy with stripping the bed of all it's mechanicals and did a quick clean up on the ways, they look really good. Here's some more pics of stripping the bed and prepping for paint. After chemicaly stripping I went over it with a die grinder with a wire wheel to remove the stubborn bits. It cleaned up really well, then I masked off the ways in preperation for painting.
 
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woodtickgreg

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bed-painted-007.jpg bed-painted-008.jpg Last week I recieved the new used headstock assembly. The seller did a great job packaging it and even made a wooden crate for it to go inside the box and bolted it down to the crate. UPS just sucks, the box arrived with 2 corners blown out and the crate which was well constructed completely smashed, boards broken, and one bolt fell out of the bottom. The only thing that was holding the box together was the plastic bands that the seller put on it. I was a little nervous when opening it and feared the worst but all was well, the only damage to the part was one oil cup is smashed and not really usable, I have another to replace it. One good thing I noticed right away was that it is very oily, and that could be a good thing and show that it was oiled regularly. Last monday I injured my arm at work and I could not carry this 75# part down into my basement, so I asked my wife to dolly it down, she did but complained all the way down. My progress is going to stop for a couple of weeks as I have to have surgery on tuesday to repair my ruptured bicep. Good thing I took pic's of the work I did last week. Am I boring everyone with this rebuild or should I keep posting?
 
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woodtickgreg

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bed-painted-001.jpg bed-painted-002.jpg bed-painted-003.jpg bed-painted-004.jpg bed-painted-005.jpg bed-painted-006.jpg Last weekend I painted the bed also but I did not post the pic's as I wnted to wait for the paint to dry and remove the masking tape and paper. I also painted the lettering on the bed and the cast iron access door, I think it looks better with the letters painted. When I stripped the paint I found red paint in the original layer and on the letters so I repainted it the same.
 
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Splat

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That's pop'n, Greg. Almost too pretty to use. Almost. :D Good job!
 

woodtickgreg

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serial-card-back.jpg sothbend-lathe-serial-card-.jpg So some of you may know that I had a work injury, ruptured bicep, had surgery to reatach it and I'm home rehabing. I'm out of comishion for 4 to 8 weeks so I havn't made any further progress on the lathe. So since I don't have any progress pics to share I thought I would show the copy of the serial number build card I got from Grizzly. Grizzly is now handling parts for southbend and you can get a copy of these cards for your lathe. Some good info is on these cards, seems that mine spent it's whole life in the Detroit area, built in 1949serial-card-back.jpgsothbend-lathe-serial-card-.jpg
 
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Flatfendershop

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Nice work Greg! Looks great. You will like the underdrive, its a good compact design. I have a 10K which is an underdrive, its a little tough to get into sometimes but once you get it set up there's not much that needs to be accessed in the cabinet other than a periodic clean and some oil.
 

woodtickgreg

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Good news! The doc has given be the green light to do a little light work in my shop. he said it would help with the rehab. So I guess I can tinker a little, maybe clean some parts, maybe a little painting. I think I can get a friend or two to help start with the rassembly of the bed, pedastal, and legs. Woo hoo! Mostly working one handed.
 

Old Iron

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Greg glad to hear your doing better with your shoulder. I've been following your rebuild and its looking great. When you get it done you'll have something to be proud of.

Paul
 

woodtickgreg

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tool-cart-003.jpg tool-cart-004.jpg So my first order of buis after getting the ok to do a little light work was to purchase and put together a shop cart. I needed one anyway and this would be a good test to see what I can do at this point in my rehab. It went well and I loaded it up with all the parts I need to refurb, kinda cool, when the carts empty I'll be done. Everything is tagged and bagged except for the large bits.
 
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ScubaSteve

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Lookin good! You seem to be savvy to SB's and their quirks. Glad you figured out the taper pins, those can be hell to remove if you put them in wrong (ask me how I know)! There's plenty of info out there on refurbing/restoring, especially for the heavy 10's. BradJacob over at PM did a real nice restore on his lathe....definitely an inspiration. I guess I missed the part where you needed a new headstock....was it because of the modified bearings? If you got a reasonable price on the second headstock, that might come in real handy down the road as you get some wear and tear. All in all you came out with a hell of a bargain, the name South Bend seems to add $1k to the price tag, even if it is a clapped out machine. The scraping on your compound is great. SB and other makers from that era were known to make changes quite frequently so it can be difficult to know whether something was done at the factory or by a PO. One thing I never knew is that "flame hardened ways" weren't done until sometime after the 60's....and they are ground, not scraped. But, that's not to say that scraping was done on everything prior.....some lathes were scraped, and some were not...kind of erratic for such a large company, but I guess it was according to what options the customer requested. I had a 1919 SB 14" lathe that actually had cast iron ways, not scraped or hardened, but they were hell for stout and I could barely make a mark on them when cleaning up with a scotch brite.
 

woodtickgreg

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Lookin good! You seem to be savvy to SB's and their quirks. Glad you figured out the taper pins, those can be hell to remove if you put them in wrong (ask me how I know)! There's plenty of info out there on refurbing/restoring, especially for the heavy 10's. BradJacob over at PM did a real nice restore on his lathe....definitely an inspiration. I guess I missed the part where you needed a new headstock....was it because of the modified bearings? If you got a reasonable price on the second headstock, that might come in real handy down the road as you get some wear and tear. All in all you came out with a hell of a bargain, the name South Bend seems to add $1k to the price tag, even if it is a clapped out machine. The scraping on your compound is great. SB and other makers from that era were known to make changes quite frequently so it can be difficult to know whether something was done at the factory or by a PO. One thing I never knew is that "flame hardened ways" weren't done until sometime after the 60's....and they are ground, not scraped. But, that's not to say that scraping was done on everything prior.....some lathes were scraped, and some were not...kind of erratic for such a large company, but I guess it was according to what options the customer requested. I had a 1919 SB 14" lathe that actually had cast iron ways, not scraped or hardened, but they were hell for stout and I could barely make a mark on them when cleaning up with a scotch brite.
Steve, I did end up finding another headstock with the spindle, cone pully, and bull gear. I paid $90 for it. I have not had the chance to tear it down yet but I don't think I will have the surprise I had in the first one. I don't know if it would have ran with those goofy bearings but I just couldn't see the capilary oil wicks working with them as there was a groove cut in the center of them, I just want to keep it as close to original as I can. And as far as cast iron being hard? I agree with that too! I am really having fun with this project, and it should come out nice and be a great user. I just gotta get a couple of friends over to help me assemble what I have done so far, Only got one arm as of yet. I wanted to get a couple of parts painted today but it stormed, maybe tomorrow. So far I think I have about $800 into it total, with the rebuild book and kit, and several parts that were missing or damaged. I'm gonna estimate $1000 or less for the whole project by the time its done. I think I'll get a couple of small items yet just to spiff it up, and more paint! After I get the bed, base, drip pan, and legs assembled it's on to the gearbox, everything in the gear box works, just replacing all the wicks and giving it a good cleaning and paint.
 

woodtickgreg

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Foundation-001.jpg Foundation-002.jpg Foundation-003.jpg Foundation-004.jpg I finally got some work done on the painted parts, a friend came over and held everything in place for me so I could get it bolted together. This gives me a good foundation to work from now. I am still limeted in what I can do with one arm, but as long as I don't over due it the doc encourages me to work my hands. I also got the very heavy original 3 phase motor installed in the base while I had the help of my friends muscle. Still need to clean the pullys and install the v belt and adjust the tension on it, but I can do that on my own now. Next thing to do is tear down the gearbox and repaint and install new oiling wicks. The gear box has to go on before the head stock as their is a mounting screw you can't get to after the head stock is installed. Here's a few pics of todays progress.Foundation-001.jpgFoundation-002.jpgFoundation-003.jpgFoundation-004.jpg
 
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rw1

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Really looking great Greg! They are a labor of love , one can feel good about what they accomplish -- keep at it and be safe!
 

woodtickgreg

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Those ways look great....what did you use?
The ways and everything else were either covered in gray primer or a coating of oil and crud. To remove the paint I scraped them with a new razor blade first then wiped them down with acetone. final clean up was with some 600 grit sand paper, didn't take much and they cleaned right up. They showed almost no wear, no grooves. No sign that the ways were ever scraped, not even under the headstock. Some people may not agree with using sand paper on the ways, but I assure you it was very light just to remove very light surface rust and gunk mostly. The razor blade and acetone removed 90% of the gunk. There was little if any metal removal in the clean up.
 

ScubaSteve

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Good to know. Yeah, some people would cringe at that...copper chore boys and brass brushes are good too, but i guess for that " one time" cleanup a very fine grit sandpaper is okay, as long as you clean the grit off very well. Otherwise its like lapping compound once mixed with oil. Still, it looks nice...and probably pretty darn accurate for hobby work, I dont care what anyone says.
 

woodtickgreg

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Good to know. Yeah, some people would cringe at that...copper chore boys and brass brushes are good too, but i guess for that " one time" cleanup a very fine grit sandpaper is okay, as long as you clean the grit off very well. Otherwise its like lapping compound once mixed with oil. Still, it looks nice...and probably pretty darn accurate for hobby work, I dont care what anyone says.
I look at it like this, how many people find a piece of machinery of this age with absolutely pristine ways? I would venture to say very few. Almost any machine of this age is going to need some clean up of the ways, no matter what you clean it with to remove any rust, and their will be some, you are going to have to use an abrasive something. even brass brushes or copper pads will remove some metal with the rust and grunge. My ways although needing a good cleaning are very sharp edged and angular, no wear grooves where the saddle rides. Look at the pics when I started this thread, I took a close up pic of the ways and they were not bad. I belive that cleaning them the way I did was the way (excuse the pun) to go. Lets say your lathe was very rusty, would you give up on it? I wouldn't, I would do the best I could, maybe as far as having everything reground or scrapped. I am sure there are lathes out there in far worse condition than mine being used in shops daily for production work. Sometimes I think people put to much into having a perfect machine. I have even consulted with a machinery rebuilder on this very same topic, the old south bends will hold a tolerance even with some significant wear, which mine does not have. Even though I intend to use this lathe, like all my tools, I want it to look good. I don't like using crummy dirty tools. Anybody that thinks that a 60+ year old lathe isn't going to have some wear of the ways is kidding themselves. jmo
 

ScubaSteve

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I hear ya. I can't stand a messy workplace....disorganization gets in the way of efficient progress. Obviously, when you're using a tool, you're gonna make a mess. But, once chips or sawdust or whatever piles up, you take a quick break and clear the debris. At the end of the job, wipe down your lathe, table saw, or whatever tool you're using.

I do the same thing in the kitchen....it's called cleaning as you go, and it really reduces cleanup at the end....like to zero.

I've gotten into the habit of cleaning up at the end of each day I do something in the garage...even if the project is still in progress. When I come back to it, I can think clearly because I don't have a pile of tools and debris to contend with. Plus, I just like to look at a clean and well cared for machine. It's like a car; somehow it just drives better when it's clean :)
 

woodtickgreg

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I hear ya. I can't stand a messy workplace....disorganization gets in the way of efficient progress. Obviously, when you're using a tool, you're gonna make a mess. But, once chips or sawdust or whatever piles up, you take a quick break and clear the debris. At the end of the job, wipe down your lathe, table saw, or whatever tool you're using.

I do the same thing in the kitchen....it's called cleaning as you go, and it really reduces cleanup at the end....like to zero.

I've gotten into the habit of cleaning up at the end of each day I do something in the garage...even if the project is still in progress. When I come back to it, I can think clearly because I don't have a pile of tools and debris to contend with. Plus, I just like to look at a clean and well cared for machine. It's like a car; somehow it just drives better when it's clean :)
I never said my shop was clean! LOL I just don't like crummy tools. I am a wood worker also, when I get involved in a project the shop gets trashed and not cleaned until the project is done. It's like that with the lathe restore right now and several other projects going on at the same time. The only thing I do during a project is an occasional sweep. I should be better at the cleaning thing, I guess I would rather work than clean.
 

ScubaSteve

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I guess there's something to be said for balance. I see some guys' shops and frankly it looks downright dangerous....especially when there's stuff you have to step over/around. OTOH, I see some of these shops that are so clean they're probably better than some operating rooms. I won't lie, I recently built some decent sized shop tables, but before that I did everything standing up or on the floor. On a project like yours, I'd have half a lathe laid out on cardboard to strip and paint and it definitly looked crazy to the neighbors.​
 

woodtickgreg

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hawk,-gearbox-001.jpg hawk,-gearbox-002.jpg hawk,-gearbox-003.jpg gearbox-dissassembled-001.jpg gearbox-dissassembled-002.jpg The doc says to work in my shop a little to help with my therapy. I can't argue with that! So yesterday I got the drive pullys and under drive pullys in the pedestal cleaned up and the new belt for the motor drive installed and adjusted. Today I started on the gear box tear down. I was very patient with it and even made a special punch out of an old plastic injection mold ejector pin, they are very hard and don't bend. Here's a few pics of the before. Next will be a trip to the parts washer and strip the housing in preparation for paint. everything came apart with little fuss, some extra work with the pins was all, nothing damaged in the dissassembly.
hawk,-gearbox-002.jpghawk,-gearbox-001.jpghawk,-gearbox-003.jpggearbox-dissassembled-001.jpggearbox-dissassembled-002.jpg
 
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woodtickgreg

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buffer.-gearbox-prep-007.jpg buffer.-gearbox-prep-008.jpg buffer.-gearbox-prep-009.jpg buffer.-gearbox-prep-010.jpg buffer.-gearbox-prep-011.jpg A couple days ago I finally got some time to work on cleaning and inspecting the gear box. Let everything soak in the parts washer overnight and then brushed everything clean. I just use mineral spirits in my parts washer. Stripped all the paint off the castings and wire wheeled. All the gears looked real good and no scoring on the shafts. cleaned all the oil holes with pipe cleaners and removed the old rock hard and dirty wicks. I got everything all masked off and ready for paint too. The little wood pegs are to keep paint out of the oil holes. The reason they are not painted yet is because I was running all over town trying to find the paint I have been spraying in a quart can as I want to brush the gear box casting so I don't get over spray in the holes. I couldn't find it so I settled for a little darker gray color rust oleum, I guess I'm gonna have a 2 tone paint job now. LOL Should still look good I think, especiall if I do the apron, saddle, tail stock, and head stock the same color.
 
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