Help wanted solving a mill bed problem

The first thing that I would do would be to check the gib adjustment as loose gibs can cause lifting of the table in extreme positions.

I would mount a dial or test indicator in the spindle and sweep the table surface in the direction parallel to the vise jaws. You should not see a significant change in the reading. If you do, it indicates that the table surface is not parallel to the ways. Assuming that you see no change in the reading, next sweep a parallel as described by Mitch. If you see a change in the reading there, the problem is in the vise.

The case of the table surface being non parallel to the ways can be cured in two ways. The first would be to resurface the table. Since the mill wouldnt be able to access the entire surface, the table would have to be removed and resurfaced externally. A second cure would be to mount an intermediate plate and mill the surface with a small diameter end mill rather than a facing tool to minimize any effect of poor tramming. This surface should be true to the ways.

A vise can be trued to an certain extent by inverting the vise with a large piece of uniform thickness stock clamped in the jaws. A 2-4-6 block is a good candidate. Seat the block firmly in the vise, tapping with a soft faced hammer and invert the assembly. clamp the block to the table with toe clamps or other suitable means. Mill the bottom surface of the vise using a smaller diameter end mill. Note that if the table surface isn't parallel to the ways, this procedure would worsen the condition so make sure that the table is true first.
 
First of all thanks everyone who tried to help me here. GREAT FORUM:encourage:.I checked everything and Bill.........you were right. I would not have thought an new vice coul have such a runout,but here it is.
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That is 10thou. Now how do I fix that.Shims or is the must I do as RJ suggested do fix the problem forever? I think the 2nd one right? But for now shims must do just for this job. Thank you guys.
 
Short of squaring the vice or buying a new one (bad idea I realize), soft jaws are the simplest solution, ditch the hard jaws and buy (bad idea again) some soft steel stock, drill and tap it, bolt to vice then mill in place, clamp parts in milled pocket and problem solved.

Or,
For example
https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09215088

Had 5 of them on a 60" mill table on Dec. 31 of last year, the customer HAD to have the 110" long part on Jan. 2nd
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Wreck has a point. The vise you have is not the best choice for squaring up pieces or for most common mill operations. A good quality mill vise without a swivel base will make your milling life a lot easier. The multi angle vise is only good for those times when you need to mill compound angles, the rest of the time it will just take up your Z axis and not provide as rigid hold as a regular vise will. Quality does matter in a vise.
 
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You have found the bed of the vise is out .010” of an inch but still haven’t truly and definitively found the cause until you check the machines table too. It still could be the table or the vice or both. Good luck!
 
I’d remove the swiveling base from your vise and try that first. Mount just the top section of the vise and recheck it. You really seldom need that swivel anyway.
 
What Eddyde and Tim9 said, eliminate the swivel first.

Welcome to my rabbit hole :) I first ran into this with my shaper vise. The swivel wasn't flat. But also the jaws were somehow sprung, in the middle between the mounting screws!

Once you have the swivel off and the stationary jaw of the vise trammed in, the next step is not the bed, but seeing if the stationary jaw is parallel with the z axis of the quill. It's best to have a test indicator as opposed to a dial indicator for this as its easier to see. If it is, or is really close, there is a really good method I got off YouTube from This Old Tony and Oxtools.


They both have vids about the process of taking something that's not square and machining square, or really close. If the problem is not the head tram, the table gibs, the swivel etc( after checking them all) and you do have a good reading on the stationary jaw to the z axis, you basically use that jaw as your reference, not the bed of the vise. I know, it was not what I was thinking either, but it totally makes sense once you see the process. You only use one parallel up against the stationary jaw, put your work up against it and get the other jaw close and put something like a tig electrode or small drill bit between the work and the jaw. This makes it so the work is free to locate on the stationary jaw. Do the cut, then then on each new cut you use the same idea using the stationary jaw as your reference.
 
I don't see how I can remove the swivel from the vice,because how would you clamp it down? I do have an older vice that came with my mill/drill and I do use it although it has been abused a bit by the previous owner. Sadly I don't have money for another new vice. I did buy that swivel base vice because I don't have a turret tipe milling machine. My machine's head can only swivel side to side not forward and and backward if you get what I mean. Maybe I will try to refurbish that old vice. The mainproblem is the vice bed that has a few drilling accidents on the bed. I will post a pic or two tomorrow. Maybe you guys can give me some ideas to blow new life into it.
 
His vice is made in such a way as it can not be removed from swivel. The vice both swivels as well as angles. Look at the first pic. If it is the vice that is the problem then it can be A: the swivel base is not parallel B: the angle mount on the swivel base is higher on 1 side than the other C: the vice itself is off.
I think it would be easier to just buy a new vice. Even one of the cheaper Kurt Clones would be easier to fix if off.
 
you've got to figure out if it's the vise or the table of the mill. If the mill table is good (and one hopes that it is), then the easy solution would be to shim up the low side of your vise by putting shims between the table and the base of the vise. Then save your pennies for a standard lock down vise.

My 2nd hand mill came with an angle vise like that. It's not bad but it eats up a lot of height and it's pretty flexy. I got an import 4", worked it over and then put the angle vise in the cabinet under the mill :)
 
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