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jwmelvin

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#1
Hi all. This is a great forum, which I found recently as I have started to think more about getting a machine tool or two. In college and grad school, I spent a lot of time in the machine shop, mostly with manual machines but a bit of CNC. That was fifteen years ago.

I know there are plenty of threads on this but I'd really appreciate people's thoughts on how to organize my space. I made a model of it in SketchUp to try a few things and make it easier for you to see what I'm working with (I believe most things are to scale but there may be a few errors).

garage_end_open.png

garage_back_open.png

The garage is large, about 100' x 55', but serves many purposes. It only has 9' ceilings. There are ~2 exposed walls, the other two are underground; on the exposed walls there are a number of 20x30" windows high up; on the long exposed wall are three garage doors, and there are two outside people doors plus one to the house. One corner, including a garage door, has a sectioned-off room (2x6 walls) that is 20'x34'. The corner of the room that is empty in the model is full of household storage.

I do a mix of work; a good bit of automotive, some wood, and now trying to include more metal. As you can see in the model, I have a lift in one corner. At this point I could rearrange nearly everything, though the lift needs to stay where it is. Because of that constraint, I'm inclined to continue developing that area for automotive work. I put the press over there because I typically use it for automotive projects, though it's possible I will use it as a press brake in general fabrication.

The shop space that is contiguous with the main garage space has been set up as my woodworking area. It has two 8'x4' tables, one of which has a table saw set into it. Other than that I have a miter saw and a scroll saw, and some portable power tools. (Right now the drill press and belt sander are in there too but I plan to move them.) I may acquire additional tools as projects require.

I recently started welding, and have plans to continue my general fab capabilities. I'm just a hobbyist, working in evenings and weekends. Many of my projects are automotive related, but I have some other projects around the property/house. The enclosed space is what I'm figuring will be a metal shop. I currently only have a drill press, belt sander, and MIG and TIG welders. I plan to get a 4x6 bandsaw in the near future and a relatively small (~10x30) lathe after not too long. I put the bandsaw in the model adjacent to where I plan metal-storage racks.

I understand that abrasive operations are undesirable around precision instruments. In the model, I have placed the belt sander and bench grinder in the metal shop, as I think they will likely be used frequently. I could section off a corner with curtains if abrasive dust is a serious concern. I could also move them to the automotive corner, but that means a lot more walking back and forth. I think that's okay for the press since it won't be used as frequently. My bigger concern is grinding as associated with welding. That generates a lot of mess and I'd prefer not to have it in the machine room. So, I could plan to move my welding operations over to the wall where the press is, in the automotive corner, which would keep grinding dust away from machine tools. I already have outlets for the welders over there.

As drawn, there's still room to park a car in the metal shop. That would be more convenient than using the third garage door for two cars. But there is room to have the cars in the main space, especially if an active project requires the space in the metal shop.

That was a little longwinded but hopefully you get a sense for what I'm working with and will let me know your thoughts.

-jason
 

RandyM

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#2
Let me be the first to welcome you to HM Jason. We greatly appreciate you sharing your shop plans with us.

I think you have a great start. My only advice is to put things where they will work out the best for you now. I have found that nothing is permanent and what works for you now may not be so convenient for you in a few years. I have gone through this evolution myself, moving things, adding things, upgrading things. Consider your layout a work in progress.
 

jwmelvin

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#3
Thanks. It's a good point. One thing I need to do is put additional electrical service and improved lighting in, and that may change with the layout. But I suppose I should try to keep an free attitude to such changes.

For some reason, the pictures came out pretty small in my original post. let me try remote versions:
garage_end_open.png garage_back_open.png

edit: hm, I don't seem to be able to reference external images; they always are copied to a local version?
 

RandyM

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#4
Yup, lights, electrical, air, and cabinet and bench placement have all changed over the years. Along with the machines and equipment. I have approximately the same size building, 50 x 104 x 12. My building is split at 40 feet with a solid wall and the rest of the 64 feet includes storage and paint booth. Being divided, the building has two furnaces for heat. The shop has a 12 x 12 office and a 6 x 12 bath room.
 

Dabbler

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#5
My small shop has had many arrangements over the last 28 years. I'm currently moving every 'stationary' machine again! Yes it is a pain, but you put everything down, and then learn what works (and doesn't) for you. My needs have also changed a lot over the years and I do almost no woodworking these days and when I first moved to this location WW was about 80% of my shop time.
 

jwmelvin

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#6
Are there operations that I should definitely keep together or keep away from each other? Should I worry about putting the belt sander and bench grinder in the same room as the lathe? If I cover the lathe appropriately, could I go ahead and use abrasive wheels with angle grinders in the room?
 

Dabbler

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#7
All sanders and grinders should be toghether, far away from your precious mills & lathes....
 

mikey

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#8
Grinders and sanders put out a lot of dust containing metal and minute abrasive particles. Personally, I do not grind anywhere near my machine tools. You have enough space to erect a separate grinding room inside your metalworking area or move grinding operations into the main garage area somewhere.
 

jwmelvin

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Thank you both.

What about woodworking equipment, for example putting a lathe in the room where the table saw and miter saw are, keeping the dirty operations and welding in the sectioned-off room? In any case I will keep the lathe covered unless it's being used.

I've considered locating grinding and welding in the main garage, but it starts to feel pretty awkward to separate frequently used items. And it leaves me with nearly nothing in the enclosed space...

I guess what I'm struggling with is that I do understand it's best to have precision tools isolated but I don't yet have a lathe or mill. While I can accept that the layout will change, I'd like to plan as much as possible.
 

mikey

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#10
Thank you both.

What about woodworking equipment, for example putting a lathe in the room where the table saw and miter saw are, keeping the dirty operations and welding in the sectioned-off room? In any case I will keep the lathe covered unless it's being used.

I've considered locating grinding and welding in the main garage, but it starts to feel pretty awkward to separate frequently used items. And it leaves me with nearly nothing in the enclosed space...

I guess what I'm struggling with is that I do understand it's best to have precision tools isolated but I don't yet have a lathe or mill. While I can accept that the layout will change, I'd like to plan as much as possible.
As long as the machine tools are covered up, I see no reason you can't do wood working in the same area. Dust is an issue but I assume you are going to use dust collection equipment and keep the area neat. Lots of guys make do with what they have.

To be honest, the space you (and Randy and Paco and AlanH and others) have is palatial and if I had the luxury of space you have, I would cordon off an area for my lathe and mill and tooling to keep it free of dust. Then I could do whatever outside of that room without worrying about my machine tools. If you do create a separate space for machine tools, make it bigger than you think you'll need because I guarantee you that your lathe and mill will grow in size if you enjoy this hobby. Not only that, you may enjoy it enough to include a shaper, surface grinder or other machine tools that you cannot envision owning right now. Hobby machining is a serious disease so consider yourself warned!

Welcome to HM, J!
 

jwmelvin

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#11
...I would cordon off an area for my lathe and mill and tooling to keep it free of dust. Then I could do whatever outside of that room without worrying about my machine tools.
I like this idea and am thinking about something like this, which should have room for a mill and lathe:
garage_end_open_subRoom.png
 

ConValSam

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#12
+1 to Mikey's suggestion about a dedicated space for the machine tools and as you have drawn it.

And +100 to the risks of this disease: I would make your machine room even bigger.

No matter what you decide, have fun; that's what this supposed to be about!
 

mikey

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#13
I like this idea and am thinking about something like this, which should have room for a mill and lathe:
View attachment 254801
Hmm, maybe make the machine room half the available room, with plans to expand as needed. I am not kidding you, the room will grow!!!
 

RandyM

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#14
I am going to be the odd man out on this one. Everything they are saying is correct, but here is my view. I am a hobbyist and I am using old well used machines already and the type of stuff I do doesn't warrant extra high precision. My grinding, cutoff, and welding are with in ten feet of my machines. If my machines are beyond use after I have well been planted in the ground I will have gotten full use of them. But, I am thinking that they will out live my and then some even with my bad practices. Now mind you, I do like to keep a tidy shop, but it does get dirty because I do use it. I have been in industrial shops that had separate areas for all the operations, some had walls and other not. I think if you keep your machines well oiled and maybe covered you have nothing to worry about. Here is my machine shop lay out that is the same 40 x 50 room as my lift, office, and restroom. You can see the stock rack, cut off saw and welding bench locations starting at the corner in the upper left. Sorry, I just think all these separate rooms is just over-kill for a hobbyist. I really like the freedom of doing big jobs and having the room to do them with out the confines of walls. Quite honestly, the dust you are going to get in the air everyday without grinding or welding is just as harmful. I really think that if you are really concerned, covers would be your best option. Again, sorry guys, just my 2 cents.

Machine Shop 05.JPG

Here is the lift area in the same room. And to the right of it is the office with the furnace on top of it.

Shop 01.JPG
 

jwmelvin

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#15
My grinding, cutoff, and welding are with in ten feet of my machines. . . . I just think all these separate rooms is just over-kill for a hobbyist. I really like the freedom of doing big jobs and having the room to do them with out the confines of walls.
First, that's a beautiful shop and thank you for posting. It's very helpful to see how others have done it.

Second, this is exactly why I wanted to get a sense of the magnitude of the concern. It's great to know that it's not necessarily the death knell to have an undivided space. I will not be using my machines all that often and it would be much more convenient to keep the space undivided. That said, I do understand the concern and agree that if I do leave it undivided, I will want to give some attention to covers and protection for any precision machines I have. I may end up with some fashion of a divider, but perhaps not a built wall.

I started cleaning and set in place: the belt sander, drill press, and the start of a welding table. Here's how the room looks currently:
IMG_2936.jpg
Getting things in place is helping me sort out the electrical and lighting configuration.
 

RandyM

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I have found the use of the plastic welding screen (curtains) mount on wheels are really very helpful in temporarily dividing things off. I use them to protect my machine when vehicles are washed or to contain heavy grinding. You can see them in the first picture behind the one tool cabinet.
 

DougD

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+1 for Randy. Was wondering why no one recommended the welding screens. Your available space is great, but as others have said the lay out is an ongoing project/work in progress; the more permanent walls you put up the more restrictions you will place on yourself in the future changes. The vast majority of us do not have the luxury of space. The close proximity of different operations is not that great of a problem to deal with.
Also as said above I would concentrate on lighting and electric.
dd
 

ConValSam

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#18
Randy

THAT IS A KILLER SHOP SPACE!

Especially like all of the pump globes in the lift area...
 

FOMOGO

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#19
Mine like yours is a work in progress. I've divided it up into separate, specific use areas partly due to the pre existing area of the new building, and partly due to having everything in one large area in my current shop, I could see the advantage of keeping some areas segregated. I do a fair amount of welding, grinding and fabrication and that produces a lot of abrasive dust and debris, is hard on the floor, and doesn't play well with other activities like engine assembly, and painting. Also having things sectioned off will allow me to heat just the areas in use during the cold months that I'm around. In the pics here https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/a-bit-more-progress-on-the-shop.49101/ you can see in the second from last pic three bays. In order from the left is 15x22 machine shop, 15x22 welding and fabrication, and the last tall one will be 4 post, movable lift and general work area, convertible to paint room. I guess in the end it boils down to what you intend to do, and personnel preference. You have a nice large space there, so the options are wide open (pun intended). Cheers, Mike
 

jwmelvin

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#21
I finally feel like I have a place here! I picked up a used Grizzly G0602, 10x22” lathe last night. It was a pretty good deal and came with a good bit of tooling and some measuring equipment. I haven’t gotten very far with it but it’s on the stand it came with and in my shop.
dbacc60845b4d1745d3b7f7472afb586.jpg

I have made good progress setting up the shop, though it’s still a work in the early stages of progress. It now has outlets (2x 20A @120v and 1x 50A @240V) and a couple air drops. And I got a 4x6 bandsaw.
89f753235b66a35459679a5bc28f336c.jpg

(That beam is a W8x4 that I got from the neighbor’s demolition project. I’m not sure what I’m doing with it yet but I’m sure it will be useful.)

I’m sure I will have plenty of questions in the coming days as I get the lathe set up. I will be cleaning and lubricating it, though probably not breaking it all apart initially.
 

dlane

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#22
Hope you have apisser in there somewhere
 

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#23
Couple general suggestions.

Twist lock outlets and good quality 20 amp regular ones...A 200 amp sub-panel.

The box stores sell a 200 amp sub with many breakers for about 80 bucks

They have room for lots of breakers.

Run conduits overhead to supply power.

Twist locks for things less likely to move often and standard for stuff that does.

Place simple hook shape or open eye screws to support cords.

One outlet or box per breaker.

Cords dropping from a low ceiling means minimal trip hazards from cords to walls.

Look for a pallet jack and build platforms under anything without wheels.

Simple 3 chunks of 2 X 4 with plywood on top makes a platform that the jack can easily move.

Mills and refrigerator are just 2 examples.

Cord reels and air hose reels above as well.

If you have open joists above you can place 2 X 4 across them to allow longs to be placed there too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 

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I finally feel like I have a place here! I picked up a used Grizzly G0602, 10x22” lathe last night. It was a pretty good deal and came with a good bit of tooling and some measuring equipment. I haven’t gotten very far with it but it’s on the stand it came with and in my shop.
View attachment 260020

I have made good progress setting up the shop, though it’s still a work in the early stages of progress. It now has outlets (2x 20A @120v and 1x 50A @240V) and a couple air drops. And I got a 4x6 bandsaw.
View attachment 260021

(That beam is a W8x4 that I got from the neighbor’s demolition project. I’m not sure what I’m doing with it yet but I’m sure it will be useful.)

I’m sure I will have plenty of questions in the coming days as I get the lathe set up. I will be cleaning and lubricating it, though probably not breaking it all apart initially.
That beam can be hung from the rafters then a trolly placed on it to be an overhead hoist.

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#25
I like the overhead trolley/hoist idea. I'm not expecting to work on really heavy stuff, but if I was, that'd be a great item to have.
 

Boswell

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#26
If you are going to treat the floor (expoxy?) better do it soon before you have too much stuff needing to move. Looks like a great shop in the making ! Looking forward to seeing how you progress.
 

jwmelvin

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That beam can be hung from the rafters then a trolly placed on it to be an overhead hoist.
I like the overhead trolley/hoist idea. I'm not expecting to work on really heavy stuff, but if I was, that'd be a great item to have.
Yes, I do like the idea of an overhead trolley. My problem with it is the '9 clearance below the trusses, so then adding this beam would drop that closer to 8' and then it would be just a single axis across the shop. I could do that on the large main beam, but it's too far into the shop from the garage door to help with much unloading. I've considered using the beam to build a jib crane mounted to the wall next to the garage door instead. I've also thought about building a fixturing table with it.

If you are going to treat the floor (expoxy?) better do it soon before you have too much stuff needing to move. Looks like a great shop in the making ! Looking forward to seeing how you progress.
I hear what you are saying. At this point it's not in the plans. The overall space is so big and so full of stuff that it's hard to figure out how to do it, though my wife would like it. As far as just doing it in the metalshop space, that would be nice too but I think my momentum has already built too much. I'm sure I will think about it from time to time. In a more-perfect world, yes...

Thanks for the interest. It has been fun making progress.
 

Dabbler

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#28
I didn't mention how I keep grinding/welding/badstuff away from my lathe and milling machine. I use transparent shower curtains that are never in the spark direction, but close off the one corner of my shop, but only when grinding. Since I have an exhaust fan in that corner, most of the 'badstuff' gets sucked out or stays put. I normally weld in the middle of my shop, but I'm working on a way to make a separate welding corner SOON...

My shop is a single space of about 500 sq ft, so I have to segregate as well as I can. The importance of this is similar to guarding your ways, oiling your equipment, and so on. It is just good sense to keep everything clean and protected.

I'm sure that RandyM keeps his precision machines clean and oiled! His shop is fantastic BTW!!!
 

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#29
I ended up getting a shop crane/engine hoist (2 ton) that I can use instead of going with any sort of fixed crane - this makes it a bit more versatile to me.
 
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