Horizontal Vs Vertical Milling.

[Ben17484]

I currently have an Astra Horizontal mill that has a vertical head as an back up:

The vertical set up has very little space as you can see, so most of what this machine is made for I assume would be in the horizontal setup.

I have the option of buying a larger vertical machine. I think in general the larger vertical machine would be better, but it would definitely be A LOT of effort to get it in to my workshop (single doorway with limited access from a 4 foot wide alleyway) and I’ve just spent money/time getting my mill set up with DRO etc.

I realise that the comparison between these two machines is very difficult as my Mill is small and home use and the vertical is More ‘large hobby’ size. My main question is - what would i struggle to do in a horizontal set up that would be much easier on a vertical mill (assuming that I wouldn’t have space on my vertical head on my mill).

To make that a bit easier to answer - on two comparively sized machines, one vertical and one horizontal, what would the horizontal not be able to do that the vertical would? Or what would be much harder on the horizontal.


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[cathead]

The vertical mill is a lot more versatile. For example, a vertical mill can make pockets or be used for boring cylinders
that a horizontal mill just can't do. If you enjoy machining, you might as well treat yourself to a vertical mill even
if you have to disassemble it some and get some help to get it into the shop area.

 

[markba633csi]

The vertical machine can perform as a drill press, the horizontal not so much.
-M

 

[Chewy]

There is night and day between the two. A vertical mill with angle blocks, rotary table, spin indexer and different vises and jigs will do 99% of what you want or need to do. With a little engineering you can do some (not all) stuff that would be easier on a lathe. Get a mill with the highest Z travel you can. If you are fortunate to get a mill where the head swivels left to right and in and out, go for it. Then you can clamp a piece off to the side of the table and still reach it. In 6 years, there have only been a couple of times I wished to have a horizontal mill. The vertical is in use every day.

 

[rabler]

In addition to modern combination vertical + horizontal mill, I have an old K&T vertical mill, it has a manual crank head mounted on ways, not a telescoping spindle. Really the telescoping spindle (aka quill) is the big advantage of the common vertical mill. It essentially doubles as a high precision drill press.

The thing to think about for precision facing, is that knee-based mill tables (horizontal or vertical) sag somewhat as they are extended left/right to one extreme or other. If you're facing something going for flat the sag can be neglected if you face on a horizontal mill. The other benefit of a horizontal is mounting things on a long arbor with arbor support, stacking multiple cutters. More applicable for production setups I suppose.

I bought the combo mill naive when I first started. If I was to do it again I'd put the money into a better purely vertical mill for what I do.

 

[MrWhoopee]

There are many, very good reasons that the vertical knee mill has replaced the horizontal (even with a vertical head) in job shops. Mostly it boils down to ease of use and versatility. Yes, it will be a PITA, but worth it. Just do it. If you don't you will be kicking yourself each time you bump your head against the limitations of the Astra.

 

[682bear]

I have both types... an Enco vertical, and a Cincinnati horizontal.

If I could only have one, it would be the vertical for all the reasons listed above.

With that being said, I do really enjoy running the horizontal mill... it's just limited as to what I can do with it.

-Bear

 

[Aaron_W]

It is less about what one can do that the other can't so much as what each does more easily.
There are very few things that a vertical can do that a horizontal can't but the vertical is often just easier to use for many common tasks. Each type does some things better than the other. There are also some tasks that are done differently between the two.

Just looking at the range of motion makes a lot of this pretty obvious. The range of motion in the vertical axis (Z) is usually much larger, than the in and out motion (Y). This will give a vertical mill an advantage for drilling and boring because this work is done in the Z axis. A horizontal mill can handle a much larger cutter for the same reason.

Illustrated with my Clausing 8520 vertical mill and Diamond M20 horizontal mill. The diamond is a slightly smaller mill but definitely in the same class.
The Clausing has a 6x24" table, 15-3/4" vertical travel (Z), 5" in out from the column (Y) and 15" side to side (X).
The Diamond has a 5-1/8x20" table, 15" vertical travel (Z), 5-1/2" in and out from the column (Y) and 14" side to side (X).
They both run a 3/4hp motor and weigh in at around 600lbs.

A vertical mill can do significantly larger work for operations like drilling because the Z axis is nearly 3x the Y axis on either mill. Similarly a horizontal can do much larger work for things like slitting saws because on a horizontal this work is again done in the Z axis, on a vertical mill it would be done in the much smaller Y axis.

A horizontal of equal size / weight is significantly more rigid for many operations because the spindle can be held at both ends.

If I could only have one, there is no doubt the Clausing would the one to stay, but the two mills are complementary to each other, so neither has any fear of becoming homeless.


Edit, technically I think the Y and Z are flipped between a horizontal and a vertical mill, but that becomes very confusing.

 

[Ben17484]

Thanks everyone. I think you’re all saying what I secretly already knew. I guess I was kinda hoping someone would say ‘you can do it all on a horizontal mill, you don’t need a vertical one’, but really I knew that wasn’t going to be the case. I really have very little money In the Astra mill, so I’m not worried about selling to get money back towards a vertical mill, but I really don’t think I have space for both. I’ll have to have a think about if I can fit both in somehow, but In reality I think the Astra has to go.


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[Bi11Hudson]

From my perspective, a horizontal mill is the more "usable" of the two. The vertical mill makes most work easier, but. . . When you have little tooling, and can do, albeit with more difficulty, what you want the horizontal wins out. A vertcal machine requires more specialized tooling and will do, literally, more and better work than a horizontal. It comes down to whether your time or your tooling is more important. I do have a small (very small, very cheap) vertical machine, but mostly as a controlable drill press. And I have some tooling for the vertical. But most of my milling is done on a horizontal. Even when it involves tooling from the vertical.

In your situation, I would go for the vertical machine. Even to having to "finagle" it down a narrow space. I would love to have a better machine than my toy. But am limited by the weight as much as the complexity or space. But to let go of the horizontal, not a chance. If no more than setting it in a corner to gather "stuff" stacked on it, so be it. As a "backup" it might become desirable one day.

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