How often do HSS end mills need sharpening? SOLVED

I’ve been saving my dull end mills , hope to build a sharpener jig like the ones Harold Hall made . http://www.homews.co.uk/page121.html. Most of mine get just the very tips that get dull , very seldom am I taking deeper then .030” on steel on a 1/2” cutting full width .
 
@TomWS

Hi Tom. I see that you are calling this "Solved", but I thought I'd chime in anyway.

When I first saw your thread title my first response was that the question was along the same lines as "How long is a piece of rope?"... a question that cannot really be answered......

My second thought was just, "When they are dull.".... but observing that change in function only comes with experience.
You have received some great responses above.

However, I just ran your numbers and 1000 RPM is about twice the RPM I'd use.

For a HSS cutter in Aluminum I'd want to run about 100-110 sfpm. (as a hobby guy with sloppy machines and no production deadlines)
For a 3/4" cutter that means between 400-600 RPM.

There are a number of online calculators for this.
I thought LMS had one, but I cannot currently find it.....

From: http://www.carbidedepot.com/formulas-turning.htm
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From: https://www.kennametal.com/us/en/resources/engineering-calculators/miscellaneous/speed-and-feed.html
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-brino
 

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I’ve been saving my dull end mills , hope to build a sharpener jig like the ones Harold Hall made . http://www.homews.co.uk/page121.html. Most of mine get just the very tips that get dull , very seldom am I taking deeper then .030” on steel on a 1/2” cutting full width .
Thanks for the link to the sharpening jig. I think, at this point in my 'career', I'll take his first suggestion:
"Most home workshop users will consider sharpening end mills a non starter due to the complications of sharpening its edges. This is understandable and whilst I have provided designs for doing this I consider it is only worthwhile if the milling machine is made considerable use of. " (Emphasis mine)
 
For a HSS cutter in Aluminum I'd want to run about 100-110 sfpm. (as a hobby guy with sloppy machines and no production deadlines)
THAT is what I need! DATA! Thanks!
LMS calculator uses 200 sfpm. Link is: https://littlemachineshop.com/mobile/speeds_feeds.php
I'll change their number in their calculator. Do you have any other SFPM values for a hack like me? Mild steel, Brass, SS?

Or... maybe it's as simple as taking the 'standard' recommendation and cutting it in half???
 
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Do you have any other SFPM values for a hack like me? Mild steel, Brass, SS?

Sure, here's what I use.......

For HSS cutters:
steel, cast iron: 80 sfpm
aluminum: 110 sfpm
brass: 110 sfpm
copper: 80 sfpm

A few notes:
You will see wildly different recommendations in any text dedicated to professionals where the equipment is new and tight, and time is money.
I treat these as "starting points" and adjust up/down to suit the task, material, equipment, etc.
In practice, I like only having two starting points to remember; it's easier on my little brain....
These assume some cutting fluids, but they don't have to be esoteric, expensive, hard to find fluids; here's two that I can find at my local hardware store:
I use pipe threading oil for cutting steel
https://www.homehardware.ca/en/1-litre-pipe-cutting-oil/p/1142041
For aluminum I like the clear, odorless lamp oil
https://www.homehardware.ca/en/710ml-clear-paraffin-lamp-oil/p/4360517?page=search-results page

I don't use much carbide tooling, but cutting speeds there can often be increased by 50%.

-brino
 
Tom, you've gotten a lot of great input but I wanted to chime in on a few points.
  • The 3990 is a mini-mill so not a lot of power or mass. While you can put a 3/4" end mill in it, that is way big for a machine of this size. You have to remember that you need enough power and rigidity to cut effectively with a cutter of that size and you just don't have it. I suspect that a max end mill diameter for your machine would be close to 3/8".
  • The cuts you're making are profiling cuts. Speeds and feeds differ for profiling cuts vs slotting cuts, just as they differ for roughing and finishing end mills. What greatly impacts on your speeds and feeds are how much of the diameter of the end mill is involved in the cut (called the radial depth of cut) AND how much of the length of the end mill involved (the Axial depth of cut). With each profiling cut you make, BOTH of these depths of cut have to be considered as they determine what your speed will be to enable the end mill to make the cut. The greater each one is, the slower the spindle speed must be.
  • The feed is very much dependent on the diameter of the end mill and how many flutes it has. The more flutes, the faster the feed. Keep in mind that calculators and charts and tables assume you are using an industrial machine with the rigidity and power to push an end mill through the material at these feed rates. Just to be clear, a 3990 does not fall into this category and hence, the feed rates do NOT apply to your machine.
  • The concepts of "chip load" and "metal removal rates", in general, do not apply to a manual mill and certainly not to a mini-mill so forget that.
  • With regard to when a HSS end mill needs to be sharpened, it is a plain and simple fact that us hobby guys typically cut with the end of an end mill and this is especially true when we are first starting out. Sort of makes sense, too, because isn't that how an "end" mill is supposed to cut, on the "end"? The reality is that the quickest way to dull an end mill is to take baby cuts with the end at improper speeds and feeds. Better to use a reasonable axial and radial depth of cut at the proper speeds instead of using the end or taking baby cuts; that will reduce wear more than anything else. Roughing with a finishing end mill in this fashion is also common to hobby guys and will dull the end mill even faster. If you look at a brand new quality end mill, you will see little tiny hooks at the tips of each flute; when those hooks are gone or when the tips of the flutes are not sharp, the end mill is done and needs to be resharpened or replaced. Far and away, improper speeds dulls end mills more than anything else.
Okay, so what to do about all of this? I'm no expert but I've been using a Sherline mill for close to 40 years and sort of have an idea of how to do it, at least on that machine (and my bigger mill).
  • Always rough with a rougher when possible; it will save your finishing end mills. You can go about 20% faster and cut about 20% deeper with a rougher compared to a comparably sized finishing end mill. When profiling, use a fine pitch rougher; when slotting, use a coarse pitch rougher. This has to do with chip clearance. My little Sherline can push a 3/8" coarse pitch rougher in a full 3/8" deep slot in 6061 without even slowing down.
  • Use finishing end mills after the rougher to refine the finish and bring the cut to final size. When profiling, 4 flutes or more work well. When slotting, 2-3 flutes work better for chip clearance. You have to go slower when slotting and you go faster when profiling; more flutes allow for faster feeds; fewer flutes require slower feeds.
  • Limit the diameter of your end mills to sizes your machine can handle. There are exceptions to this but the majority of the time I limit my Sherline to 3/8" max, although I've gone up to 1/2" on it at times. I limit the end mill size because I know that if I get my speeds and feeds right, the mill can handle the cuts I ask of it. If I go bigger, it cannot, and it cannot because I just don't have the power, rigidity or speed necessary to handle a big end mill.
  • When cutting aluminum, high helix end mills work better. For slotting, go with 3-flutes. When profiling, 4 flutes or more work better.
  • Use HSS for most materials. Use cobalt when machining higher carbon stuff or stainless. Use carbide when you need to go deeper, taller or smaller; carbide is stiffer and will be more accurate in deeper slots or features. Carbide is also better when the edge requires a great deal of accuracy because the end mill is less likely to deflect.
  • Finally, learn how axial and radial depths of cut are used to determine speeds. This is critical for you. Just because a table or calculator spits out some number, that has to be tempered by the fact that you're using a mini-mill and not a Lagun or Bridgeport.
I am attaching a data sheet from Niagara Cutter for 6061-T6. It will give you an idea of the concepts of axial and radial depths of cut and how your choices affect speeds and feeds. Look it over; it should be self-explanatory but I can guide you if you need it. Also remember that these recommendations are for full-sized mills but if you limit your end mill size to 3/8" or so, the recommendations in this sheet can very likely be used with your mill without modification.

I've thrown a lot at you but I do hope this helps.
 

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I am attaching a data sheet from Niagara Cutter for 6061-T6.
Thank you very much for the advice and the data sheet. I'm a bit confused by the data sheet, however. The way I read it:
1. Axial Depth should not exceed 1.5x diameter. My Axial depth is slightly less that 3/8" so I'm ok there even if I use a 3/8" diameter bit.
2. Radial Depth Ratio determines the SFPM value. So, if I'm using a 3/8" (10mm) diameter bit at, say, 12.5% stepover (Dia/8) I should use SFPM value of 600.

That doesn't jive with any of the numbers I was seeing. LMS calculator uses 200, others recommend 110, etc. What am I missing?
 
Yeah, speeds for aluminum with smaller end mills will easily max out your speed so max out your speed and focus on feed. Personally, I prefer to feed manually with these smaller end mills so I can feel what the cutter is doing and this takes a bit of time to get right. When a cutter is working right, you will feel a slight resistance to the feed. As you feed in, you will feel the cutter contact and then you'll feel the resistance to the feed increase. You want to feed just enough to keep a slight positive contact with the material as it cuts. Harder to describe than to do but it is important because this works for ALL cutters for ALL manual feeds, either on the mill or lathe. You are looking for a slight resistance to the feed, and then you have to maintain it throughout the entire cut. Get it right and the tool will cut efficiently and accurately; push it and the tool will deflect.

The other thing I meant to mention is that using cheap end mills is false economy. Cheap end mills do not cut well, they do not last and they make learning to use an end mill much harder. I highly recommend you buy a good high helix 3 flute roughing and finishing end mill from a good maker when working with aluminum. I much prefer Niagara Cutter end mills over all others; they work, they last and they are accurate. My current Niagara 3/8" high helix coarse pitch rougher for aluminum has to be over 10 years old now and is still going strong. My Brubaker high helix finishing end mill is well over 5 years old and still cuts like new. My point is that it pays to buy good end mills appropriate for the material you have and then learn to use them properly.

Good makes include Niagara Cutter, Brubaker, Melin, Regal Beloit, OSG, Putnam, Titex. There are others. Note that Shars, Harbor Freight and LMS are not on this list.

Always buy new end mills, even on ebay. Do not buy used end mills unless you can sharpen end mills properly, including the hook at the tips.

Limit the size of your end mills to sizes your mill can handle. Again, 3/8" to maybe 1/2" would be the max. Quite often, you can save money by buying off sized end mills. The vast majority of the time you can use a slightly smaller end mill and just cut a slot to size by moving your X-Y coordinates. For profiling, the exact size of the end mill doesn't matter.

The number of flutes impacts on chip clearance and feed rates. In slots, go with 2-3 flutes to clear chips better; for profiling, more flutes produce a better finish and allow you to feed faster. In slots, use a low pressure stream of air to clear chips so the edges of your cutter are not doing a lot of re-cutting; you will be surprised at how much longer your end mills will last.

Lubricants matter. WD-40 works well for aluminum and is cheap. A mister system works best to lube and blow chips clear but a brush and blow gun works almost as well. For steels, any good cutting fluid will work and air is just as useful.

Give it some time and things will work out. You have a little mill so you have to determine what it takes to use it. Much of the information on the net and the forums does not apply because you just don't have the power, rigidity and mass BUT that doesn't mean you can't do the work; it will just take a bit more time and finesse. I use my Sherline a LOT, even though I have a larger mill that is orders of magnitude bigger; the Sherline is just easier to use, more precise and has variable speed so I can dial in my cuts. You would be surprised at what a tiny Sherline mill can do in the right hands. The same will be true for your LMS 3990 once you figure out how to use it.
 
Ok, thanks for the additional info, but I'm still stuck on the purpose of the datasheet you sent to me. If I read it correctly it's recommending SFPM much much higher than anything I've been looking at - how am I supposed to use that data?

Yeah, speeds for aluminum with smaller end mills will easily max out your speed so max out your speed and focus on feed.
Are you saying set my spindle speed to max and then manually feed the mill into work by feel/sound? Clearly if I use 600 SFPM in the calculator it is, indeed, going to tell me to set my spindle to max speed, but 600 SFPM doesn't sound right at all.
 
Yes, max your speed and feed by feel. Have you tried it? I've been doing this for decades.
 
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