How to buy a shaper?

Perhaps it is a bit basic, but in the thrill of the find, often overlooked (and I have several discarded remains of ignoring this). You can't ignore your instincts - if the guy feels shady, or the entire package looks or feels a little dodgy, it is a very good idea to walk! Sometimes it is just the overall look of the machine or what is missing (and you ask yourself "why would this be missing?")

If you love rebuilding machines as I do, you can forgive a bunch, as long as the deal and the machine are solid. I agree with vtcnc about repainted machines, a definite warning sign!

I recently bought a 1920s shaper from the 'here's the castings, now build it yourself' era of machine tools. it is a 6" storke 5" X travel shaper in very rough condition, but all the parts were there and the hard stuff: the gears, the scotch yoke, and the ratchet advance were in good shape. I'll have to replace a gibb, and is about a 200 hour project. But it is what I love to do, so I bought it.

Part of what to look for is what you feel you are willing to fix, or do you want a working machine? Do you have the budget for a perfect one, or do you have to go discount? Do you have the tooling, skills and time for a big project? In some ways these answers will dictate how picky you look at the machine.

In any machine tool I check fo cracks in the casting, looking in and out if possible. I look at the wear marks and chipped paint for signs of abuse. I try to look at what I can see of the ways to look for excessive wear due to non-lubrication. These things can scuttle the deal for me.
 
Several people have mentioned looking for wear on the ways, with attendant drop in the tool post, cutter across the surface of the work.

Obviously, old tools are gonna have wear. But, How much wear is to much? (In thousands)

I plan on taking a dial indicator with me and measuring vertical movement of the clapper as the arm moves in and out.

One of the primary purposes I would use this shaper is to make dovetails. For mating surfaces, clearly flatter is better.

Thanks for all the suggestions thus far. Great primer on shapers!

Glenn
 
it looks real nice but an odd color--I have two of them --one green and one orange--he is priced pretty high and for that price the tray and stand should be included---Dave
 
Glenn Brooks said:
Thanks Doubleby, what is a scotch yoke?
Click to expand...

Lots of youtube videos showing scotch yoke movement. BTW that shaper is over priced in my book and to boot has fresh paint, which for me is always and I mean always a RED FLAG. Others love fresh looking machines, but fresh paint hides flaws as others have mentioned. Machines with soft ways are pretty easy to spot wear on, your fingernail can tell you a lot. Its fun getting excited about a possible new tool, but keep in mind Atlas were budget machines, not saying they can't make parts, but they are not heavy duty, used pot metal parts in places, do not have hardened slideways. Because they are small and can be moved easily they go for a premium for what they really are. If you want a better machine, looking for a Logan, Southbend or other would be a good choice.

If you have the space move up and buy a real machine that can work, something in the 12" or more size range. Shapers are great for cutting dovetails, but I can cut them way faster on a mill than I can on a small shaper and more accurately also unless that shaper is a tight, low wear machine. To me the reasons for a first shaper are..... you want one, its cheap and you have room or you have lots of keyways to cut. Myself I just wanted one, to this day I wish I had gotten a bigger one, mine works great, but anything I can do on it, I can do faster and better on my mill. If you just want one because they are cool, might want to consider one without the fresh paint and high price.
 
In addition to looking for braze/weld repairs, don't hesitate to question the seller about the subject. Remember, he's seen the machine BEFORE the refinish. If he's not ready to guarantee that there aren't any, I would count that as a significant negative. If there are such repairs, use your judgement.
 
I have 6" shop built shaper that I'm completing, so I asked just how accurate are these things. To know when I'm there. It 's from the '50s I'm guessing. No one really gave me an answer. I have 4" Chinese milling machine vise I'm going to use on it. It was made on a shaper and it was .005" out. I think that might be the answer.

However lookcreations on YouTube has his really tuned up.
 
Good question Glen. As for a number Im not sure. When the machine is running the ram should be floating on a layer of oil so ideally all the clearance is taken up. With that in mind probably 3 thou up and down movement with the ram retracted and fully seated in the ways of the base. With it sticking out that is going to be amplified. With say half the ram in the ways you'd then probably get 6 thou up down. Thats assuming your squeezing the oil film out. I've measured the movement on mine and can't remember the number, will try and remember to measure it after coffee. Old age thing.

Greg
 
I did some searching in Connelly's book and for new clearance in the ram a minimum of 5 tenths and maximum of 1.25 thousanths.
That was for flat ways so a dovetail might need more than 5 tenths. Don't know.
If it has several thousanths wear I would consider scraping it back to spec.
 
The shaper is a lot tighter than I remembered. Forgot and had to go back out and measure.
With the ram retracted i could get .0005 movement up and down with all I could lift on it.
With an 18 inch bar i could get about 2 thou.
With 10 inches of ram out beyond the ways I could lift it about 0.001 by hand, hard lift
The 18 inch bar would lift it .0025.

Greg
 
Thanks all for your info. Particularly measurements on ram movement. Really good to know.

Yep, Iam a little concerned by the new paint job and no info on how much variantion there is in ram movement, flatness of the dovetails and machine surfaces, etc.

Dave lives nearby and might be able to go take a preliminary look for me. (Around 5 hr RT for me, + time to inspect etc).

Shapers don’t come up around Seattle very often. Maybe 2-3 times a year. Sadly a 10” shaper just sold in Idaho. Didn’t get a chance to go see it, before it fell off CraigsList. Plus I don’t have any room in my shop until I sell some stuff. Plus Iam kind of tired of moving 3000# tools around. so a small one is attractive. Although, I bet a larger one would be more useful over the long haul. Just have to see how it plays out.

Glenn
 
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