How to ‘shape’ 16” work with 7” shaper

Glenn Brooks

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Hello all, thinking about buying a very nice 7” shaper. Problem is I need to machine some 16” long work (bolsters,aka cross bars, that fit a bunch of miniature railroad truck side frames).

So, how difficult is it to do one half the length of the work, then flip the piece around and machine the other half to size? Tolerance isn’t to critical . However, tolerance and alignment would be critical for other things, such as cutting key ways in axles, etc.

Anybody have experience doing this kind of setup with a shaper?

Thanks much,
Glenn
 
Hello all, thinking about buying a very nice 7” shaper. Problem is I need to machine some 16” long work (bolsters,aka cross bars, that fit a bunch of miniature railroad truck side frames).

So, how difficult is it to do one half the length of the work, then flip the piece around and machine the other half to size? Tolerance isn’t to critical . However, tolerance and alignment would be critical for other things, such as cutting key ways in axles, etc.

Anybody have experience doing this kind of setup with a shaper?

Thanks much,
Glenn
Pardon my confusion, Glenn, but if you take 7" from one end and 7" from the other end, doesn't that leave you with 2" of your 16" part uncut in the center? Or, maybe old American shapers gave more than what they promised? I am getting used to Chinese import machines that will cut 5.1" but are labeled as 6" machines...
 
Sounds like an excuse for a bigger machine ;)

(Actually watching this thread since it might be something I will need to do someday.)
 
Pardon my confusion, Glenn, but if you take 7" from one end and 7" from the other end, doesn't that leave you with 2" of your 16" part uncut in the center? Or, maybe old American shapers gave more than what they promised? I am getting used to Chinese import machines that will cut 5.1" but are labeled as 6" machines...


Bob, ahaha. well as you noticed, I am not all that good with math. :eek:

Actually, setting up long pieces (and just working the ends of parts) is part of the problem Iam trying to figure out before driving down to look at this little beauty. As I’ve never worked with a shaper, just don’t know much about complex setups. E.g. what can be done and what can’t be done with the smaller machines.

Glenn



Glenn
 
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The cutter has to clear the work at the end of the stroke Glenn. You can't machine up to a shoulder, you have the set up so the stroke is along it. When you do a keyway a hole is drilled at the end for the cuter to stop and start in. Set up's can be as complicated as you have imagination to create. I've cut 5 foot long racks 8 inches at a time indexing over for the next 8.
I think you were looking at a 7 inch one going for $1500. You could probably buy two big ones for that price if you have the space. I had a Logan and did a lot with it but the 18 inch Peerless does what it could and a lot more. Big machines with some finesse can do small work, small machines limit out.
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Big parts can be done on them but the big machine is so much stiffer.

Greg
 
Greg, thanks, the photos open up a lot of possibilities for large setups. The big gear held by a sling or lift is something else! Clearly laying long work at 90* to the clapper is the way to go, then indexing over as you show in the 8’ rack you are cutting.

Around Seattle shapers seem very rare. I only see one or two every year. Not to say they don’t come up more frequently, but I’ve not been a steady buyer. Good ones go for a premium. Another restored one sits on Craig’s list here locally for $2300 USD asking. But, not interested in paying that much. For me, more of a curiosity and personal interest in the tools of yesteryear. Might go look at the one in Portland over the weekend. It’s a bit cheaper and Who knows what the owner might take...

Here is the one in Portland. More photos on the CL forum.

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Looks like a very clean machine. Nice paint job anyway.

Glenn
 
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By your list of machine tools you know about Old Iron. It all depends on whether it was actually restored or just painted. And of course how much use it got and who used it. Atlas 7b is not pressure oiled like say the South Bend so it's a lot like running an old steam engine. There is a ton of places to oil and like and old Harley, if there isn't oil dripping under it, it wasn't oiled properly. I don't see bright ways on the cross slide so it could be a cosmetic rebuild. Mine was obviously used a lot and the cross slide needs a new nut and the slide scraped in. This shows up in the fact as you traverse it's tighter at the ends and still loose in the middle. Still pretty accurate but things can get wonky when you try to shift over work like what you are talking about doing.

I would agree with Greg, you can do smaller projects on a bigger shaper than doing too big projects on a small shaper.

Shapers are rare here too, but I've seen more big G&E, and Cincinnatti 18" and 26" for around $1800 than like an Atlas 7b. The last 7b looked restored like that one you're looking at, was complete and was $2,000. Went in a week. Not to long ago Crank scored a beautiful South Bend 7" shaper for $1,000. The big shapers were in the Bay Area and were there for months. Dunno if they sold or they scrapped 'em. They were beasts though.
 
I have a Atlas Shaper. I have made the dovetails on qctp tool holders by cutting one side and then flipping the tool holder to do the other side rather than changing the setting of the clapper. I had no problem with this. You do have more side movement than 7". The height has been more of an issue for me than the stroke. You will find that there is a learning curve to using a shaper and grinding the tool bits for it. You will find that for a lot of things you have to get creative with holding the items. This one does have the vise with it and you are correct that we don't see many around here. It wasn't long ago that a larger one was listed but you need room and it is heavy. Here is more info On the Atlas Shaper. http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlasshaper/
 
Thanks Rob,

Any idea what the height limit is with the Atlas 7b?

Glenn
 
Glenn,
I would expect your cross feed might be a bit more than 7", although I'm not that familiar with that shaper. You might get a visible line where the cut's meet, but if it's only a cosmetic surface, you can probably sand it out. So long as the part can be set up so that the stroke covers the whole surface, you can index it over to face it. I purchased a 24" Cincinatti up near Seatle a couple of years ago. Great machine, but you have to have the equipment and will to move it, not so easy for a 7,000 lb machine.
 
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