I think most machinist want a cnc but for good reason and myth they are scared

Same thing goes for me.
Growing up on a small farm working on equipment, the mechanical stuff comes easy. Also, as pointed out in an earlier post, most mechanical parts are based on a standard of some sorts.
Even electrical isn't too much of a pain since everything is pretty much standardized, but roll into the world of electronics......nothing seems to be standardized.
Yes, at its root everything boils down to 1's & 0's, but what makes up the 1's & 0's is different with almost every program out there. Seems everything in the programming work is a never ending VHS vs Betamax battle. Learn this method, but it won't translate to this other one (which is the new standard for now until something newer comes along) so one is forced to relearn.
I'd love to learn CAD & CAM for the possibility of going CNC later on, but I'm 50 years old and didn't grow up with computers. I've learned some basic stuff through trial and error because of necessity for job related programs, but I didn't have to worry about crashing a couple thousand dollar home machine because I goofed.
Programmers use a different language that makes perfect sense to them, but is just greek to me and I don't speak greek. I've done countless searches and made inquiries on a miriad of different forums with little or no results. Simple things like those tossed around in this thread discussing various programs and their limitations. What limitations ??? Everyone seems to think "Well that's common knowledge". Well, it may be to those who have learned and used it, but to me.....no idea what you're talking about.
I run a nuclear power plant and have/could explain fission, fusion, thermodynamics, power factors, VARS, house curves, load line, neutron poisons, and on and on and on..., but most would just look at me with a blank stare because they have no understanding of the terminology or frame of reference to associate it to.
I wish there was a class close by that was convenient for me to attend with my goofy work schedule, but there isn't. Thus, I'm relying on the internet and books to try and figure it out on my own with most things I've found assuming that you have some base knowledge and understanding of how it all works to begin with. Nothing I've found explaind to the level a complete beginner can understnad.
If I've missed something available out there that would help me out, please let me know.

First you have to decide if your gonna go with a home brew cnc solution. If the answer is yes, then that'll narrow down the focus for software. There's probably 100 different ways to skin this cat.

As far as controller software goes, Mach3 controller software,seems to be very popular for home brew CNC, 3D milling and 2D cutting such as plasma and oy/acet. It's good to stick with a popular solution, since there's more information first hand experience floating around.

Sheetcam is also very popular to generate the g-code which is read by mach3.

So for my application , Plasma cutting. the design procedure goes something like this,
1) Design the part in CAD(autoCad, Turbocad, RhinoCad etc) , I can also draw art in( corel draw, Inkscape etc)or import artwork from the internet or scanner etc.
2) Export the file as a .dxf file to Sheetcam and design the tool paths in Sheetcam to cut the part,
3)Export that file as a .tap file(g-code) to Mach3, which is on the machine controllerPC.
4) set your zeros on the CNC machine and run the file in mach 3 to control our machine.

It took me a while just to figure out what to do and how to do it. I'm certainly no expert, I've just scratched the surface, but i figure, if i do enough of it and persevere, i'll get really good at it eventually.

Here's the bottom line. Don't expect to just push a button and make a part... that aint gonna happen. There's a lot of up front investment in machinery, learning software, time, building and tweaking. The payoff is that once you've paid your dues there, you'l be making some pretty amazing stuff. Once you've made one part you can just as easily repeat the process 100 times with very little extra investment.

These are just my methods to date...like i said there are many different ways to get the same job done, but i've found that sticking to one popular method helps out a lot when you need to ask a question.

Youtube is your friend. There are tutorials that helped me tremendously with the software. When i see it done in a video, it gives me the confidence to follow what they did and get something working. Working strictly from a manual makes me crosseyed and confused, but a manual in conjunction with some video and a little experimenting on my part gets me moving forward and learning.

Marcel
 
Thanks for the reply.
I have the gist of the process and I've read that Mach 3 is a popular program.
Not sure if I will eventually convert my mill over to cnc or buy a cnc ready one. In the mean time, I'm trying to find a good source to learn CAD. No schools close by that teach it where I live and my work schedule and family life prevent traveling to take a course.
Been looking for online sources, but unsuccessful at this point. Figured I'd tackle it all one sep at a time. Learn CAD, figure out what softwares I wanted to run, and go from there.
 
I learned the machinist trade before there was CNC. NC was new when I was young. Those machines ran on punched paper tapes that somebody had to type into a punch machine after they figured out all the cordinates. When CNC came along I leaned how to program, set up and operate them. The last 10 years before I retired I spent most of my days using Pro-E cad-cam software making solid models and writing CNC programs. Now that I've retired I have forgot most of what I knew about writing CNC programs or running the machines and that's the way I like it. I'd much rather be cranking handles than sitting at a computer any day of the week. So no not every machinist wants to have a CNC machine at home.
 
don
I feel the same way about someone showing up at my house wanting me to repair their car. after 37 years of repairing vehicles, i'd rather not.
steve
 
Please excuse the rant. :)

The worst things that scare off people from CNC are pretty obvious to me because I deal with similar issues on a daily basis at work. For the most part, the software is either written by computer people who have no idea about machining, by machining people who have very little computer skills or electronics people who really don't know machining or programming. None of them have any realistic concept of people using the system that are not experts in machining, computers, electronics, and who can't type in a program, use a game controller, keyboard, and mouse simultaneously.

Interacting with with the machines in a "manual" way (conversational mode) is awkward at best.
Support and upgrade issues are even worse than calling tech support for your average computer problem.
User interfaces for the design software, CAM, and control software are horrible.
Documentation is generally poorly written and so filled with geek-speak that it makes your eyes roll back in your head (if it was even written by a speaker of your language).
The manual programming interface is so poor that it is an embarrassment to programming from 30 years ago.
The file formats and licensing issues are a turf war/pissing contest by the software companies that do everything they can to screw everyone else without regard for the users.

Many people are also reluctant to give up some of the advantages of manual machining. Especially if they are doing it for their self and making one off parts. The majority of the time is spent is planning and setting up. The actual cutting time is pretty minor in comparison for most pieces. When it comes down to the actual cutting, a computer can't do what a human operator can do automatically:

  • Compensate for a tooling while making the cut.
  • Feel difference in hardness in parts of a work piece.
  • Monitor the operation, machine, and work area at the same time.
  • Adjust for faults and wear in the machinery on the fly.
  • Evaluate finish quality.
  • Test fit parts.

I will eventually migrate to CNC but I don't regret the investment of time with the manual stuff. The fact is that there just isn't much that you can do with a CNC setup that you can't do manually. The things that really move me towards CNC are:

It adds a lot of capabilities that you would have to move to much more expensive equipment and tooling to match.
It takes over some of the tedium of the manual tasks.
Allows complex machining with fewer set ups.
 
I can communicate with my machines and it's not awkward. They know what I expect of them and they are not mistreated. I no not wish to have CNC in my shop, ever. The only reason to have it is to speed things up. I don't need to do that, I'm happy in turtle mode. I don't begrudge those that want it, have fun. For me it will take the fun out of machining.

The home shop is not a production shop, it is supposed to be a place to have fun. Me not doing the whole job myself the hands on way is not fun.

I am not sfraid of CNC of anything else for that matter. Put me down on the minority list, not the most list.

Thank you for allowing my short rant, you are now being returned to your regular channel.

"Billy G"
 
Billy G,

Unfortunately, the current CNC systems are designed for replacing experienced machinists rather than aiding aiding them. They designed similar systems 30 years ago when they changed airplanes from mechanical systems to fly by wire. If they set things up properly, you wouldn't even be able to tell that a machine was CNC capable and would work manually just as well or better.

Rotary encoders could be built into hand wheels and you would be able to adjust the movement per revolution so you could easily change from rapid movement to fine adjustment.
Tactile feedback, lights, or sound effects for units of movements such as thousanths could be built in quite easily so you don't have to take your eyes off the work.
Display could change to a simple DRO mode with things like color changes to highlight an axis that is moving.
Reference drawings, standard information and calculations (such as the Machinist's Handbook) could be brought up at the touch of a button.
Tool offsets, edge finding and unlimited waypoints could be automatic.
Strain gauges to measure tool deflection could automatically restrict feed rates to save tools and make accurate dimensions.

These are just the simple ones. Get a little fancier and you could do much more.
 
I would agree with most things said.However, making a one off part is arguably faster and possibly easier in manualoperation, but given the instance that you needed to make 20+ of the same part, itwould be nice for the choice of CNC due to time savings and material waste due to error.
For me, the best of both worlds would be a machine the could be operated bothmanually and in CNC mode. I've yet to see a set-up where this is possiblewithout the need to disconnect motors or more. Two machines, one manual and oneCNC, would alleviate this, but then one has to consider expense to purchase andset up, shop space, and machine tooling commonality for using same tooling onboth machines or having a complete set of tooling for both (more $$$).
Imagine, if you would, where a person could purchase a quality machineavailable in various sizes and power requirements at a reasonable price thatcould be operated in either manual or CNC mode, ran by a program written by amachine user that was easy to learn, understand, and use. Capable of recordingand saving manual operations for repeatable production or operating off ofCAD/CAM style drawings/instructions.
Me, I'm new to both manual machining and CNC with basically an unbiased viewdue to ignorance. How can one say which is better given that it's a personalpreference. I would have to say that the CNC operator would find instances where manual opertion would be the desired choice and vice versa.
That said, will I ever chose CNC ??? I'm not sure, but don't see a reason why I shouldn't learn how to use it if for no other reason than to expand my horizons, let me make a more informed choice, and allow for the possibility.
I guess until my dream machine and operating program is available. I'll just have to muddle through.

 
Billy G,

Unfortunately, the current CNC systems are designed for replacing experienced machinists rather than aiding aiding them. They designed similar systems 30 years ago when they changed airplanes from mechanical systems to fly by wire. If they set things up properly, you wouldn't even be able to tell that a machine was CNC capable and would work manually just as well or better.

Rotary encoders could be built into hand wheels and you would be able to adjust the movement per revolution so you could easily change from rapid movement to fine adjustment.
Tactile feedback, lights, or sound effects for units of movements such as thousanths could be built in quite easily so you don't have to take your eyes off the work.
Display could change to a simple DRO mode with things like color changes to highlight an axis that is moving.
Reference drawings, standard information and calculations (such as the Machinist's Handbook) could be brought up at the touch of a button.
Tool offsets, edge finding and unlimited waypoints could be automatic.
Strain gauges to measure tool deflection could automatically restrict feed rates to save tools and make accurate dimensions.

These are just the simple ones. Get a little fancier and you could do much more.

David;

We know we are being phased out so to speak. Just remember who to call when it breaks down. You won't find him in house and you will pay dearly for his time. Not to mention the time for the company he works for. Sometimes progress is misnamed.
Sorry guys, this post got my butt out. No machine will ever replace man. Man made them. There will always be one man
there.
I will not reply anymore to this post as it it biased and the side of the skilled machinist is slighted.

"Bill Gruby" (EXPERIENCED MACHINIST)
 
I run my cnc more in manual mode than running programs if they are straight moves
i either hold down a key to move the axis to the desired location at a preset speed or type in a speed and location to go to.
using it manual is like having power feed on every axis.
and when i started this thread i said "most" not all maybe i should have added hobby machinist oh well hindsight
steve
 
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