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Is the Vice Mounted Correctly?

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oskar

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#1
In the attached picture the vice is attached vertically to an aluminum block and I wonder if this is acceptable. The second picture shows the overall setup.

If the question is silly, as a beginner it’s normal to ask such a question but I prefer that than feel sorry later. I have never seen a vice mounted vertically.

For info, the vise is holding 2 aluminum pieces 5/8” square by 3” long and they are the arms which will hold the knurl wheels for a knurling tool I make. Since these wheels have to be aligned perfectly, they must be cut together. The partial slot cut seen on the front arm was cut when I had the pieces mounted horizontally and since I was not comfortable with that position I decide to mount them as shown.

Thank you
Nicolas
 

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JimDawson

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#2
The vice will work fine in that position...... But (there's always a but :) ) I would move the whole setup to the middle of the table for better support, and c-clamp the parts into the vice. You have a nice heavy mounting block to c-clamp to.
 

oskar

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#3
Thanks Jim but I don't have good quality C-clamps of the required size so I will stick with the vice

Nicolas
 

JimDawson

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#4
Thanks Jim but I don't have good quality C-clamps of the required size so I will stick with the vice

Nicolas
Use the vice as it is, the c-clamp is for extra security. I normally use only the finest c-clamps from Harbor Freight, I guess that would be Princess Auto for you.
 

oskar

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I didn’t know you from Oregon know about Princess Auto in Ottawa, lol. I remember when I was working I stopped once in Columbus, Mississippi at a bank to get some cash and the teller asked me where I was from. I said Montreal and she said where is that? I said in Quebec, then she said again where is that? I said in Canada and finally she said where is that? Well what can I say, I was expecting a bank teller to have some education but I guess I got the wrong one that day.

Princess Auto have an 8” C-clamp but expensive, with taxes / shipping will come close to CAD$60.00. I will search locally to see what I can find. Good idea to use them for extra security

I did already half of my cut (as a beginner I’m very slow) and worked well so far, thanks Jim

Nicolas
 

JimDawson

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#6
Yeah, some folks from the USA don't get out much :grin: I spent a lot of time all over Canada, from BC to PEI when I was traveling for work.
 

silence dogood

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#7
Oskar, us guys in Oregon can have the same problem as you guys in Canada. I was in the military visiting New York city and a guy asked me where I was from. I said at the time my home town was Portland. He said: Oh Portland, Maine. Oops my bad, no Portland, Oregon. Then he asked, Isn't that some place in northern California? Shrugged my shoulders and said close enough. Hey, you could had been from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Sorry guys I'm off the main subject on this thread, but I could not resist.
 

Bi11Hudson

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#8
Well, let's see here; I'm from the "deep south"(USA) and Canada is one of the few places I haven't been. Although, my spouse is from up that way. Would that count? Also, at least here in the south, a vice is a bad habit and a vise is a workholding device. Strainge how spelling works, nei?

To your initial question, there is no right or wrong way to mount a vise, especially a machine vise. Put it where it will do the job. However, the mounting should be strong enough to withstand anything you do to it. If you're cutting with a hacksaw, it doesn't take much to withstand the pressure. And it doesn't matter if it moves a hair. If you're punching with a hammer or milling to a half a thou, that's a whole nuther matter. And climbing on it, better take a brace to the ground and weld a few struts to the walls, too. If you need it stable, make it stable.

As far as "C-clamps" go, I have a number of very old C-clamps, probably from my father. And he's been dead for over 30 years. I have others that came from somewhere, I've had them since before Wal-Mart had two stores in one city. Some more from the dime store, about a dime a piece. And lastly, some aluminium ones that I've had since the '70s, for building models. The size doesn't matter, what matters is whether they will do the job. I wouldn't use a 3" dime store clamp to hold a spring on my one ton dualie. But then, I wouldn't use a 6" Johansen to hold a model part, either. It's all relative, ya do what ya got to do. Even a feather is strong in one dimension... ...

Bill Hudson​
 

RWanke

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#9
When my wife worked at the bank (before internet days) she spent one morning arguing with 2 of her younger co-workers that the good old US of A was made up of 50 states, not 52 as they both insisted (they said she was forgetting Alaska and Hawaii). She finally called the local library and asked the librarian to tell these two ladies how many states there are. The librarian just laughed and told them both "just 50". I don't really know if it's a scathing indictment of our education system or just some folks are dumb.
 

BaronJ

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#10
Hi Guys,

As you can see I'm from the UK, and whilst I've visited the USA several times, I've gotten/been caught out several times ! I recall asking a guy in NY where the lift was, to be told the taxi's are outside. Then someone else said "do you mean the elevator ?"
I wont go on...
 

Nogoingback

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#11
Oskar, us guys in Oregon can have the same problem as you guys in Canada. I was in the military visiting New York city and a guy asked me where I was from. I said at the time my home town was Portland. He said: Oh Portland, Maine. Oops my bad, no Portland, Oregon. Then he asked, Isn't that some place in northern California? Shrugged my shoulders and said close enough. Hey, you could had been from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. Sorry guys I'm off the main subject on this thread, but I could not resist.

I had almost the same conversation once, except the woman I was talking with thought Oregon was in the Midwest.
She was from just outside New York City, so maybe it's just New Yorkers. :)
 

P. Waller

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#12
I had almost the same conversation once, except the woman I was talking with thought Oregon was in the Midwest.
She was from just outside New York City, so maybe it's just New Yorkers. :)
I am from New Jersey, many people here consider anything beyond the Boston to DC corridor "the places that the airplane flies over on the way to LA".

US Citizens are not the only nationality with a poor grasp of geography.
 

westerner

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#13
Now that this thread has been completely hijacked, I will chip in- I am born and raised in Arizona. Northern Arizona, that is. 7000 ft elevation, surrounded by the largest Ponderosa Pine forest on the planet. Average 100 inches of snow per year. Not one single Saguaro cactus within 100 miles. There are the occasional rattlesnakes, but I have seen only 5 around here in 50 years of stomping these woods. I pass thru 5 distinct climate zones to go from my house to the Phoenix metro area. (And generally waste no time getting OUT of the Phoenix metro area:faint:)
Sorry, Oskar. I think your vise setup will be just fine, btw. I try to keep first in mind which direction the cutter is trying to push the piece any time I am setting something up.
 

oskar

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#14
Now that this thread has been completely hijacked, I will chip in- I am born and raised in Arizona. Northern Arizona, that is. 7000 ft elevation, surrounded by the largest Ponderosa Pine forest on the planet. Average 100 inches of snow per year. Not one single Saguaro cactus within 100 miles. There are the occasional rattlesnakes, but I have seen only 5 around here in 50 years of stomping these woods. I pass thru 5 distinct climate zones to go from my house to the Phoenix metro area. (And generally waste no time getting OUT of the Phoenix metro area:faint:)
Sorry, Oskar. I think your vise setup will be just fine, btw. I try to keep first in mind which direction the cutter is trying to push the piece any time I am setting something up.
No problem this thread is hijacked, we all have fun but the last paragraph on the above brings up an important subject. Is there any rule(s) to difine the tool or stock feed direction?
 

JimDawson

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#15
No problem this thread is hijacked, we all have fun but the last paragraph on the above brings up an important subject. Is there any rule(s) to difine the tool or stock feed direction?
Yes there is. :) Climb or conventional cutting. And in general you want the cutting forces to ''push'' against the most solid part of the setup (normally the fixed jaw of the vice) where possible. In general try not to cut in a direction that tries to pull the part out of the setup. Either that or have the part anchored so well that under no condition could the machine exert enough force to move the part.

Climb cutting is normally not done, except for very light cuts, on manual machines because the cutter is trying to pull the work into the cutter so you lose control of the feed. Tends to cause all kinds of problems like the table jumping around and broken cutters. Climb cutting requires a tight machine with near zero backlash and preferably a lot of mass. Normally used for CNC operations.

Conventional cutting pushes the work against the rotation of the cutter and thus puts a constant load on the feed.

 

oskar

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#16
Looks good Jim, I will try to understand it with some practice
 

westerner

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#17
Conventional cutting pushes the work against the rotation of the cutter and thus puts a constant load on the feed.
Thanks, Jim. That was a great explanation. I was in the construction world for many years, in my youth. When you run a hand held wood router, you get the lesson about climb vs. conventional directions delivered to you in a very visceral way. I have known and appreciated the difference for my whole adult life, but could not have explained it better than you did, if you gave me a week. Seriously, pictures tell it all. And as I say- if anyone here still has some question about how this applies, find yourself a wood router, a cutter or bit of really ANY kind, a piece of scrap wood clamped SECURELY, and all the proper personal protection. Then, run the router in a counterclockwise direction relative to the edges of the part. After you feel comfortable with that, try clockwise:eek 2:. It will become quite clear the difference. There are times where climb cutting applies in this application too, but they are not the usual.
 
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