VN Is this a good fit for my first mill?

If you haven't bought it yet, find someone else in Minnesota and let them have a chance at it.
 
For those who own bridgeports and clones that wish they had a horizontal. There is always the horizontal attachment. They do work quite well. Or at least the ones I have used through the years worked well. The attachment comes with an arbor support that fits the dovetail ram.
 
Thank you all for your thoughts and advice. Given your responses and a little more of my own reading, I am going to buy this one if my friends brother is still willing to sell it to me. Now I just have to figure out how to move and get it powered up ( friends brother offered to help with 3 phase conversion too). So if I can ask the next round of questions.

Have any of you moved a vm12 yourself? If you did, how? Did you palletize it or other? Any idea on how much a professional move would cost? Other ideas on moving, disassembly? Your experience and willingness to share are awesome.


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I will the say the only draw back I have with my smaller No 10 VN is the no quill option. I recently installed a mag DRO not the machine and there have been several times where I will mill a part and would like to drill the part in the same setup. Using the knee to drill is not the ideal situation because you can't gauge the forces on the drill bit.
 
I moved about 4000 pounds of lathe, same weight of mill on my own - mills are VERY top-heavy, so a lot of caution's needed!

I have hired a "plant access trailer", roughly a 5 x 10 bed with either a "beavertail" drop-down ramp or a pair of flat-topped ramps (£40 uk per day) and towed behind a 4x4 (e.g. Toyota Landcruiser / Hilux, £50 - £90 a day), the trailers usually come with a winch for loading/unloading and have substantial tie down rings:

Mill on trailer side countryside.jpgmill on trailer front countryside.jpg

Getting the machine on/off has been either roll it on scaffold poles (surprisingly easy) or on machine skates, once aboard I've tied it down with a hatful of 5-ton ratchet straps (even on the poles or skates it won't move once VERY firmly strapped down and hardwood wedges are knocked into the "leading edge" of the rollers, although it's best/safest to take them out to travel) and to unload I've used the same ratchet straps in a pair, letting one out a few inches and releasing the other, then applying my favourite prybar to roll it and take up the slack in the strap.

onto ramps.jpg

There are a few moving machinery threads here, the key points are "take it slowly", "tie it off", "stay out of its gravity shadow" (where it'll fall if it tips) and "think safety" :)

Congrats on a wise decision, the difference from a mini-mill is going to put a huge grin on your face :D
Dave H. (the other one)
 
I will the say the only draw back I have with my smaller No 10 VN is the no quill option. I recently installed a mag DRO not the machine and there have been several times where I will mill a part and would like to drill the part in the same setup. Using the knee to drill is not the ideal situation because you can't gauge the forces on the drill bit.

I am a bit concerned about drilling too, and it remains the only real drawback of this mill in my mind. I'm so new to this hobby I probably can't yet envision other issues. I'm hoping I can spot drill on the mill to keep measurements close and then move to the drill press, especially for small holes. I am also hoping some other solution to the drilling shows up. Don't know enough about modifying a bp j head to comment on that, either cost or work involved to add that modification. I know the pm mill would have been great at drilling but weaker in the rigidity and milling. Time will tell, but I'm still smiling.


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Great info on moving the mill. And the pictures are so helpful. Dave, how did you first lift the mill to put pipe or skates under the mill? I have seen pictures of those toe jacks but even those need some clearance to get under the casting. Are levers or pinch bars used for this first lift? I'm wondering about getting the mill on a heavy pallet and securing it strongly to the pallet, then using a pallet dolly to get it on the trailer etc. I think this mill is around 2000 lbs. not as big as you moved but more than I have experience with. All this info is so helpful. Wishing I had some of my youthful muscle and friends back!


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+1 on how top heavy and extremely unstable these machines are. The big electric motor on top adds to the instability. You will need someway to lift the machine into the air, then place pipe rollers underneath it to move around on the ground. I have a 2 ton engine hoist for this purpose, but the legs protruding out the front, dont clear a standard size pallet, and make it extremely difficult to put the VN down of the ground. So it’s possible, but no end of trouble. Two lifts and 5 guys are better. Plus a bunch of 4x6 dunnage, various dimensi9nal shims, and a couple of 5’ long pry bars. And remember, this thing will topple,over in a heartbeat if you tilt it out of vertical. Just be extremely careful, and keep dogs and children OUT of the shop whilst doing this. Frankly, next time, I plan on hiring some local riggers.

BTW, this isn’t just limited to VNs. Bridgeport’s have the same problem.
 
Great info on moving the mill. And the pictures are so helpful. Dave, how did you first lift the mill to put pipe or skates under the mill? I have seen pictures of those toe jacks but even those need some clearance to get under the casting. Are levers or pinch bars used for this first lift? I'm wondering about getting the mill on a heavy pallet and securing it strongly to the pallet, then using a pallet dolly to get it on the trailer etc. I think this mill is around 2000 lbs. not as big as you moved but more than I have experience with. All this info is so helpful. Wishing I had some of my youthful muscle and friends back!


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Was it Archimedes who said "give me a long enough lever and a firm place to stand and I can move the world"? I use a long prybar with my 200 pounds of dead weight, a short (6" or so) piece of angle corner-up as a fulcrum (and shim it up with pieces of hardwood as I progress) to lift a quarter- to half-inch at a time, front and rear alternately, and pack it up with thin hardwood or ply shims at the corners until I can get rollers/skates underneath. It helps if you have an assistant to place the shims or very long arms... Once the rollers/skates are in place, lift once more and pull the shims and lower gracefully onto them :)

I've heard it called the "Egyptian Method" but really it should be the "Hebrew Slave Method", why do the bosses always get the credit?

Most machines have somewhere on the bottom edges of the base to apply the prybar, that VN shows a small notch in the middle of the front edge, i would assume there's another in the back? It's a slow process, but hurrying is a Very Bad Idea when you're shifting something heavy and unstable!

Re the pallet dolly, I'd be worried that it was a lot narrower than the load (here in the UK most are only 18 - 24" across the "fork") so very much less stable on even slightly uneven ground or should a wheel/roller hang up on the edge of the trailer ramp (or even a small stone, it could be enough...), scaffold poles will extend beyond the mill and give the best chance of keeping it level and stable in my opinion (but YMMV). I have seen a Bridgeport clone go sideways off a pallet and jack, neither funny nor pretty :(

Dave H. (the other one)
 
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You can also partially disassemble the machine to help make it less top heavy & easier to move. I had to do this to get my 2500 lb mill into my basement shop. I moved the mill and other similar weight machines always with just two guys (me and one other) I don't think it necessary to have a "large crew" as it is easiest & safest to use mechanical means to move heavy machines, never rely on human strength alone, if something goes wrong the machine and gravity will win.
 
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