It's $136 bucks worth of toolpost (+ holders)

[graham-xrf]

I decided to plunge into the budget end of quick-change toolposts offerings with a pre-Halloween splurge.
Maybe not too exciting. I had considered this stuff might go into Member's Hangout!

It's the case of two lathes. One in bits being restored. A hiatus all about getting the outhouse/hideout/man cave/machine shop built and up. I need to do what limited work I can on the remaining lathe, in a space becoming ever more squeezed because of the various temporary building-related clutter. Not the time to go mad on the best most very expensive!

If the QCTP turns out to be a disappointment, then something else will be put on the other lathe, but I have had enough of the lantern post, and the square "slow change with shims" toolpost. Sure, I will keep the lantern one, for those times when one has to get in close to the end of a bar, and the TP would bump on stuff otherwise.

The toolpost is an offering from RDG Tools in UK, though they do sell on eBay, and they do ship international. The kit itself is marked RDG, but for all I know, it came from China/India/ Taiwan. It might even be British, but at the price, I somehow doubt it. The 51mm post (meaning 2") is the wedge type. £104.17 translates to $136.08.
In UK, we have VAT (a sales tax) 20%, that brings it to £125, but you would not have to pay that.

--> https://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/BOXFORD-TI-QUICK-CHANGE-TOOLPOST-SET--51mm--12169BOX.html

Ahh.. BOXFORD, you say. Yes. it seems BOXFORD was pretty much a SOUTH BEND CLONE, in almost all except the name label!
It comes in a wooden box with a place for each piece. All in little plastic bags, and all greased up.

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What's in there?
The QCTP body, 3" x 3" x 2". it might be close to AXA
Two regular tool holders with up to 16mm clearance (0.63")
One tool holder with a bottom Vee, to hold a boring bar.
One tool holder with a clamp slot to take a parting tool.
3 of the tools each get a spare black clamping screw.
There is the little plated T-bar with square socket, for tightening.
You get a free parting-off tool. Steel type is HSS.

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So all parts ground and hardened. OK. It's not going to impress a horologist with his magnifier, but it looks OK for the purpose.
The mounting hole, allegedly 5/8", is actually 0.631 on the bottom, and 0.619 for the collar at the top.
The bottom of the tool holder "shelf" is 0.31 above the base. It will fit South Bend 9s, and probably all else that wants AXA

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I scaled the pics to 1280 x 720, but I think we see all we need to.

Now the question is.. have I shelled out £125 (including VAT), on kit that I am going to have to purchase again? I think maybe this time, it might be OK. Edges beveled, seems hard as hell. Stoning the underside revealed almost zero surface grinder pattern. Just slight ribs shinys near the holes line. Whatever it is, it is magnitudes better than the compound it sits on!

So now you can all tell me that at that price, even the Chinese would shrug and give it a miss!

 

[SLK001]

It's a piston type, correct? Also, the holders don't look like an industry standard, so you may have problems getting extra holders.

 

[graham-xrf]

It's a piston type, correct? Also, the holders don't look like an industry standard, so you may have problems getting extra holders.

I have to get used to what is "piston" and "wedge". I thought piston type had a central tapered piston, with a big lever handle with plastic ball on the end. I thought this kind was a wedge type, but I don't really know. The side clamps look a bit "piston", but actually only move a mm or so, worked by a rotation cam on the same shaft that has the bits that set the tool height.

What I needed was a budget QCTP that did not need to be imported. The same place sells holders individually. If in the future, I settle on something else, that's OK. I wanted this purchase to be budget enough that i would not stop me going for another brand, if need be, for the South Bend 9A

So here the HM members can offer their knowledge in making clear what is the main feature of each type. What is a "Dixon" style? What is a "Standard" style. What are 125-111's ?

 

[DavidR8]

Nice kit Graham, I've seen those before and thought they looked like decent design.

 

[graham-xrf]

Nice kit Graham, I've seen those before and thought they looked like decent design.

I thought it was pretty nice for the money. I peer up close, and they seem very well made. The buried edges inside the main T-Slot are a bit sharp, though you can run the finger over them without getting hurt. All else is proper beveled. Given the price, I was expecting worse, but the whole thing looks proper business-like! I know a traditional set like that, in a box, can run to more than $300.

Of course, if it went together, it can come apart, and that's what I did. The inside parts, the cams, the bits that nobody will ever see unless they do go there, are not fine finished like the outsides. I suppose they don't have to be - just functional. I experimented, and took my credit-card sized diamond hone to it, to de-burr and shiny up both ends of one of the cams. The middle part that tugs on the clamps has coarser turn-marks. With some corrosion block, it works slick and sweet.

I would call the innards style "Neo-Soviet", I think. I have not done anything to the other clamp yet, so if anyone has interest, I can post a close-up. It's functional, it works, but with about 10 minutes of attention, the clamp metals stop galling and it becomes very nice. Given the price, I am happy to do that little bit for it. It doesn't take long, and makes the feel of it pretty good. Arguably, it would get there anyway, as it gets a bit of use.

 

[Jim F]

It's a piston type, correct? Also, the holders don't look like an industry standard, so you may have problems getting extra holders.

That is what I was thinking....

 

[Nogoingback]

It's a piston type, correct? Also, the holders don't look like an industry standard, so you may have problems getting extra holders.

The OP's tool post is a Dickson style, I believe, which is more common in the UK. Obviously different than
the Aloris toolposts which are usual here, but he should be able to get tool holders.

Graham,the question about piston vs wedge style tool posts is relevant to Aloris tool posts which are made
in both styles. Many folks prefer the wedge type. This question may not be relevant to your type of tool holder.

 

[Larry$]

I suspect you will be much happier with this QCTP than the lantern. There are things different about yours than the more typical wedge type used in the states colonies. The parting tool holder doesn't provide any positive rake as opposed to the ones we see here. The ability to quickly change tools will lead you to get more tool holders. About a dozen probably. Have fun.

 

[graham-xrf]

Thanks guys! The knowledge is being soaked up.



Going first with @Larry$ .
There was the lantern, and there was a 3" square x 2" post which could hold tools rotated into position, but each set up with shims, which need to be set up again after any sharpening. Honestly, for $125, even if it is basic, it is a huge improvement. My fun is restoring the South Bend 9A, while using the 9C. When I know all there is about the brands, and types, and perhaps by then want to go for something else, I will know which I want to invest in more more tool-holders.

The parting tool steel provided is 19mm (3/4") wide, and thick edge 1/8, with thin edge harder to measure because it has the 15° slant to match the toolholder bottom edge tiny dovetail. As seen in the picture, 15° is also the positive rake. Mad! Is it?? The top (i.e.thicker) edge has a top ridge edge. I think it is just a blank that one grinds to taste, including any positive rake

Thanks also to @SLK001 , and @Jim F .
So this is what is called "piston type"? I am not sure. The round clamps may look a bit piston-like, but they don't ride in any "cylinder".
That they are pulled by a eccentric crank may make alluding to "engine" analogy complete in giving it it's name. I plan to get a picture of it's inside parts, if only to show up the more grubby finish in the engineering. It's not Rolls-Royce, nor Pratt & Whitney. Just straight functional.

@Nogoingback : Ahh - so this is what they mean is "Dickson Style". Thank you!
The RDG site has a big catalog of toolposts also devoted to Myford brand lathes. I don't know if they are only compatible with themselves.
Surely by now someone has put together a definitive description of most common types, and their profiles, and explained the differences.

For the frankly bargain price I got it for, I don't regret it at all. It can live with the South Bend 9C, even if I get something else for the 9A

Soon as I get it together, we can get a look at what I called "Neo-Soviet". That may be undeserved. Soviet stuff was thicker built, more agricultural styled, but it was still precision.

 

[RJSakowski]

So this is what is called "piston type"? I am not sure. The round clamps may look a bit piston-like, but they don't ride in any "cylinder".
That they are pulled by a eccentric crank may make alluding to "engine" analogy complete in giving it it's name. I plan to get a picture of it's inside parts, if only to show up the more grubby finish in the engineering. It's not Rolls-Royce, nor Pratt & Whitney. Just straight functional.

Regarding the Aloris type tool holders, the wedge type is generally considered superior because the wedge pulls the spindle facing dovetail in tight into the dovetail on two surfaces resulting in a more repeatable positioning when changing tool holders. The piston type pushes on the flat between the dovetails pulling the tool holder tight to the two angled faces. This can result in slight variation in orientation creating positioning inconsistencies.

It appears that your design uses the prism surface for a positive positional reference with the back taper being a second contact point. Your piston pulls the tool holder tight against those two surfaces which should provide a very repeatable reference surface, possibly superior tho the wedge type Aloris.