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Lagun Ftv-1

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Ski

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#1
Lagun FTV-1 - rebuild

Hello, I rebuilt this lagun a couple years back and lost a bunch of the pictures I took. Or so I thought. I found the majority so am going to post this. I believe I got spanked on this purchase as I was led to believe the seller did not know what was wrong with it. During the teardown I found serious damage and almost scrapped it along with evidence that it had been at least partially torn down. Worst damage was it was run with bearings so far gone it damaged the front variable speed shaft. I decided to go ahead with it because I like the challenge of it. A suggestion to anyone delaying a repair to a noisy machine. Don't do it. Ski

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Ski

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#2
In addition to the damaged shaft the ways had some wear. My goal once committing to the rebuild was to rebuild just the head and repair/replace any damaged or missing parts. I very quickly found that Lagun parts are scarce used and Expensive new but it generally seemed a high quality machine,and WAS probably a very nice one in its day. I recieved a bunch of help from a gentleman from the company named Carmen Morrow. He helped with this project off and on for at least a good dozen phone calls. I also was helped by another online friend. There is a lot to be said for someone with the skill and patience to assist you online or by phone. Lagun variable speed heads evolved into I think at least 3 generations with not all the parts interchangable,at least not completly. I came close enough to scrapping it that
i researched the price of scrap iron and inventoried the sellable used parts. The pulley picture is a picture of the motor pulley. It is a picture of what I thought was a pin but came to find out it was the end of a key. I should probably note that while I am a fair mechanic thanks to the USAF and the USMC. ,I am not a trained machinist. My knowledge of this machine came with a few scrapes and bumps in the road. Ski

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 

Ski

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#4
I am probably going to jump around here and there. These are photos of the column and maybe a few others. Once I was committed to this I did not want to leave the worn ways go. During teardown , I found at least one lube line that was worn though.That contibuted heavily to the condition of one of the table ways and probably to the others as well considering the lube probably travels a path of least resistance. This lube system is not metered. Other newer versions are. I would guess a metered system would waste less oil. I will also admit to another blunder in that I initially did not get the column scraped in. My thoughts were that you could see original scrapeing marks clearly. After I put the knee on ,I quickly found out that there was no gib adjustment left. Moral of the story is don't waste road time,fuel and 2 more 3 hour round trips to A&D in Roberts Wisconsin. This was NOT their fault. The father and son team do great work. I wish I had the opportunity to learn a skill like this when I was younger. I just plain and simple dig working on machines ! I had them grind/scrape/refit fit the table,saddle,knee and column. I also had them plug a few tabletop blunders that were inherited with the machine. I basically delivered the cleaned parts in order to save me money. To address the hole in the lube line I made several clips for new line and secured them with 4/40 caphead screws. I only broke one 4/40 tap . I added some in other spots as well. I ended up using a box of those 4/40 screws on all the little pointers and tags on the whole machine. The 1st pic of the whole colunm is before the grind/scrape/flake . Ski

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 
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mattthemuppet2

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#5
that sounds like a hell of a journey and I'm sorry to hear that you were mislead. Sadly there are often people that think that's acceptable, they have their reasons I guess. Good to hear that you sorted it out - any more pictures, particularly of the finished work? That column all on its own is a bit of a tease...
 

Ski

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#6
that sounds like a hell of a journey and I'm sorry to hear that you were mislead. Sadly there are often people that think that's acceptable, they have their reasons I guess. Good to hear that you sorted it out - any more pictures, particularly of the finished work? That column all on its own is a bit of a tease...
I'll be putting more up as I sort them out. While it could have went a better way ,the end result turned out pretty good. Thanks for the comments. Ski
 

Carlos Iglesias

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#7
Re: Lagun FTV-1 -> In trail...

Thanks for the thread Ski. I find it particularly interesting that I bought a SB 13" lathe in '14 which I just finished refurbing about two months ago and have a Lagun FTV-2S that's in the holding pattern for the same. Well, after I finish the almost complete DoAll MetalMaster that's in-work anyways.

Needless to say, it's been a busy year and I've enjoyed being in trail behind you all year. You make a fine lead!
 

Ski

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#8
Re: Lagun FTV-1 -> In trail...

Thanks for the thread Ski. I find it particularly interesting that I bought a SB 13" lathe in '14 which I just finished refurbing about two months ago and have a Lagun FTV-2S that's in the holding pattern for the same. Well, after I finish the almost complete DoAll MetalMaster that's in-work anyways.

Needless to say, it's been a busy year and I've enjoyed being in trail behind you all year. You make a fine lead!
I enjoyed the job. I set it back when the 13 fell in my lap but that was so I could sell the heavy 10 for needed money. Have fun. Get a copy of the manual as well. It is a lot of help but moreso from the parts breakdowns. AND make friends with Carmen Morrow. Ski
 

Ski

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#9
Here are some partial pictures of the grind/scrape and flake work done by A&D machine rebuilders. Look back at the pictures already posted and you can see the column not done and done. I will take some good shots of the complete machine as it sits in a few days when I warm up the shop on my days off. The table has been done on 3 sides I think. Table was not perfect and a couple holes were plugged before grinding.The angle iron on top of the table are brackets I whipped up to handle it with a auto engine hoist or cherry picker as some call it. I also made up a set to handle the knee which needs to be raised up quite a bit to clear the column. I think I only have 1 view of the saddle. While the grind was done I whipped out the welder cart so the pic was in the bunch and I thought I'd share. ki

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 
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Ski

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#10
These are pictures of the fine feed wheel which was cracked through the spinner handle threads. A new one was expensive at around probably 80 bucks including shipping. I filed it clean and used some wire for reinforcing and then epoxied a nutsert that I scavenged out of a piece of old furniture. 1/4x20 thead I think but better steel than plastic threads.Then I made my first ever knurled spinner knob for it. Painted it a wrinkle paint. I should note that I modified a couple bridgeport parts to fit this machine but I am unwilling to buy something I was not sure would fit so that said,there may be other interchangeable parts maybe even this wheel. Ski

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 

bjornsh67

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#11
Hi ski,

Thanks for posting all the pictures. looks like you got yourself a nice mill.

I do have a similar Lagun FTV-1. I have not started the cleaning of my mill yet - still waiting to get 3 phase power and I need to clear out old chips from the control box. So, even though the spindle is "running" smooth by hand turning, I really do not know the true state of it.

The ways still have visible flaking marks and "apparently" has low millage.

I will post pictures later.......

Bjorn
 

Ski

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#12
Hi ski,

Thanks for posting all the pictures. looks like you got yourself a nice mill.

I do have a similar Lagun FTV-1. I have not started the cleaning of my mill yet - still waiting to get 3 phase power and I need to clear out old chips from the control box. So, even though the spindle is "running" smooth by hand turning, I really do not know the true state of it.

The ways still have visible flaking marks and "apparently" has low millage.

I will post pictures later.......

Bjorn
I used a staic phase converter on this one. It was given with the mill. I added a seperate switch to shutoff power completly to the converter but I could probably have left that out. I thought it may help the caps live if not charged all the time. I'll add pics later as well. Hope to see your machine pics. Ski
 

John Hasler

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#13
I used a staic phase converter on this one. It was given with the mill. I added a seperate switch to shutoff power completly to the converter but I could probably have left that out. I thought it may help the caps live if not charged all the time. I'll add pics later as well. Hope to see your machine pics. Ski
A "static converter" is not really a way of converting single phase to three phase. It's more a way of converting a three-phase motor into a capacitor-start capacitor-run single phase motor. The correct way to wire these, IMHO, is to wire the "converter" directly to the motor and treat the resulting assembly as a single-phase motor.
 

Ski

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A "static converter" is not really a way of converting single phase to three phase. It's more a way of converting a three-phase motor into a capacitor-start capacitor-run single phase motor. The correct way to wire these, IMHO, is to wire the "converter" directly to the motor and treat the resulting assembly as a single-phase motor.
Hi John, I have the line from the wall running into a on/off then the converter to the machine. My goal whether right or wrong was to remove power from the converter completly when not in use. It does start easy in all speed ranges and seems to work well . I have not run it for more that about 3/4 or so of an hour yet, but it did not seem to get warm at all. I will post the schematic I used if I can find it to scan. Thanks for the comments. Ski
 

John Hasler

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Hi John, I have the line from the wall running into a on/off then the converter to the machine. My goal whether right or wrong was to remove power from the converter completly when not in use. It does start easy in all speed ranges and seems to work well . I have not run it for more that about 3/4 or so of an hour yet, but it did not seem to get warm at all. I will post the schematic I used if I can find it to scan. Thanks for the comments. Ski
Sounds like you've already done as I suggested.

I've been running my Avey with a shop-made static converter for about a year and a half. Works well. Only good for about two HP out of the three HP motor, but that's more than I need. I'm using the original controller rewired for single phase.
 

tonlin

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#16
These are pictures of the fine feed wheel which was cracked through the spinner handle threads. A new one was expensive at around probably 80 bucks including shipping. I filed it clean and used some wire for reinforcing and then epoxied a nutsert that I scavenged out of a piece of old furniture. 1/4x20 thead I think but better steel than plastic threads.Then I made my first ever knurled spinner knob for it. Painted it a wrinkle paint. I should note that I modified a couple bridgeport parts to fit this machine but I am unwilling to buy something I was not sure would fit so that said,there may be other interchangeable parts maybe even this wheel. Ski
Hey Chris,

Awesome job on your Lagun! You did it right and now you have a great machine for your trouble.

See you soon,
TJ
 

Ski

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#17
Here are some pics of the front shaft sleeve and install hardware to repair the front variable speed shaft. Basically I made a press with a knurled sleeve guide. Plan was to clean up the worn area on the shaft in the lathe. After cleanup cuts ,I Cut a .001 smaller sleeve of oversize OD . I Used a high strength sleeve loctite and very quickly ran the sleeve down usung a threaded rod press. It worked perfectly. I then cut the od of the sleeve to bearing ID and filed in the dog clutch teeth. That loctite sets up like now! I also will put up some pics of the brake which was almost worn out plus the spring was broken. I came up with a way to shim it for more life that worked as well. Now after this stuff was done I ran across someone who was selling off some Lagun parts. In the pile was a lower Lagun cnc housing that had a new front shaft and pulley assembly plus a new clutch. A new shaft assemble from Lagun runs about 1600.00 and brake 170.00 without the shipping. I bought the whole lower housing for 500.00. I figure I can always sell the ones I fixed if someone wants them. I was leary about how the sleeve would hold up so after tossing it around I felt it better to put the new stuff in. Add in that there was some slop on the dog teeth that my fix would not repair. The shaft and brake are both the newest generation Lagun parts. The new shaft dog teeth fit the old matching shaft perfect. Plus I have a few extra cnc parts for epay. The first brake pic is before the repair and the following 2 show the repair . Also, recognize I had some online help from my freind Don throught this sleeve job. Ski

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 

Ski

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#18
Here are a few shots of motor before and after. I put 2 new bearings in the motor. They were dry and noisy. Also one picture of the ram during paint and a few other parts. I made a switch mount that holds the converter and main switch plus built in a collet rack on top of it. Like I mentioned before the only reason for the switch is to remove the 220 from the converter when it is sitting. I could have just unplugged it too. I probably tend to overbuild something if I don't know much about it. Ski

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 

Ski

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#19
Here are a couple shots of the variable speed control. The dial was not in the best shape and I first tried to use a sticker someone printed out but I ended up with a new part here. I should have cut a new plate before I wasted the sticker. One of the cheaper parts tho. The internal shaft and control had a worn out key and I filed a new one out of keystock to replace it and tightened it up. Works good now.

image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg
 

Bogi

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#20
Ski: what a Lagun! congrats! I plan tu buy FTV-1 and rebuild it. The one I saw has noisy head, 0,0013 runout on the SK40 taper, a few spots in the table, and some wear on the Y ways.

Have you got more photos of your rebulid?
 

firestopper

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#21
Nice work, very impressive. You now have a beautiful/new mill. I really dig the frosting/scraping work.

Thanks for sharing.
 

Ski

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#22
I may have a few more pics but that is most. Anything in particular you need a shot of? One thing to be aware of is if the head is noisy,it may mean bushings and bearings. That is doable for most. However,pay close attention to the overall condition. Mine was used and abused and the cost to restore was more due to that. A machine that was well used but taken care along the way would have been a blessing. Take tools and play with the gib adjustments. ALL of them too. That will at least indicate wear. Screws are expensive so check wear in the middle and the ends of both the X and Y. My head was so badly treated that the lower front drive pulley bearing only had a few balls left in it. That would be the one at the bottom of the lower housing above the spindle. The upper front shaft was damaged although I did do a sleeve on it I ended up finding a newer front shaft and pulley setup with a new brake. It was also noisy and I thought bushings. I got a heck of a education.
 

Bogi

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#23
To be honest: I am interested in as many photos as possible. They will serve as reference for me during rebuild as there is little info on the web on this particular mill. The most valuable photos are those showing milling head during tear down and reassmebly. In my case I have no chance to buy any new part for this mill.

Could you tell me how did you strip the old paint off and what paint did you choose for painting?

I like your thread a lot, Ski:)
 
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Ski

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I did not do as many pics as I should have but it is very similar to the bridgeport. There is a bridgeport manual downloadable that someone did that is very helpfull. The Lagun manual is very helpfull and inludes parts breakdowns which are also usefull. I scrubbed the whole machine with scotchbrite pads and mineral spirits. I did not remove solidly attached paint. Just sanded the whole machine and then primed bare spots and topcoated with sherwin williams machine paint. I used brush and small roller to paint. I also used a leveling additive in the paint to minimize brush marks.
 

sanddan

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#25
Great rebuild post, thanks.

On the noise, could you give me some more details? Was the noise all the time or just in certain pulley positions? All speeds or only certain speeds?
 

Bogi

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#26
Ski, regarding sherwin williams machine paint - did you use one-part alkyd enamel or two-part epoxy/urethane?

What kind of bearings are used in the milling head? I'm not thinking about spindle bearing here. Are they open or sealed ones? Is it good idea to use sealed (rubber sealed or ZZ - metal closed) bearings? They are factory greased for lifetime, no swarfs/dust will get into the balls/races.
 

Ski

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#27
I used quality sealed bearings. I will have to look from where and let you know. Not Lagun though. Source parts from cheapest place but make sure they are quality equal to Lagun. The sealed spindle bearings are also an option but that is a arguable point. I know there are companies that are doing sealed bearings on spindles now. Do a search on that. The same brand Bushings Lagun uses can be had from Motion Industries. Parts are expensive from Lagun but I would argue that factory prices would be high from Bridgeport as well if it existed in its's original form.
I used the one part sherwin williams paint and their oil based primer. Very little filler needed.
Sanddan, The head was very noisy but since I never heard a bad one I made a uneducated guess and bought the machine thinking bushings were bad. They were, but were only part of the problem. If you know or have a friend who is a machinist. I would suggest picking their brain or better yet ,bribe them into assisting you in evaluating a machine if you do not already have one. In my case I could have scrapped and parted the machine but chose to restore it. I got spanked on it but decided to make some lemonaide.
 

Bogi

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#28
There is one more spanish made knee type BP clone. It is called Holke F-10-V. Does anyone know sth about this one?
 

Leonard

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#29
Here are some partial pictures of the grind/scrape and flake work done by A&D machine rebuilders. Look back at the pictures already posted and you can see the column not done and done. I will take some good shots of the complete machine as it sits in a few days when I warm up the shop on my days off. The table has been done on 3 sides I think. Table was not perfect and a couple holes were plugged before grinding.The angle iron on top of the table are brackets I whipped up to handle it with a auto engine hoist or cherry picker as some call it. I also made up a set to handle the knee which needs to be raised up quite a bit to clear the column. I think I only have 1 view of the saddle. While the grind was done I whipped out the welder cart so the pic was in the bunch and I thought I'd share. ki

View attachment 94037 View attachment 94038 View attachment 94039 View attachment 94040 View attachment 94041 View attachment 94042 View attachment 94048
Looks like you did a nice job!
 

Ski

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#30
Moderators, Is it possible to move this Lagun thread to the new Lagun Section? Probably others that may be easier to find there. Ski
 
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