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Lodge and Shipley 16"x8' Model X Lathe

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Brain Coral

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#91
Hi Ken,

I am on the east coast of Canada, in New Brunswick, about 2 1/2 hours from Maine. It looks like it is approximately an 18 hour trip, one way.

Brian
 

4GSR

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#92
Yeah, your way up there! Not much up in the northeast now days. I'll keep my eyes open if something comes up.
 

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#93
I finally got a start on getting the damaged gears out of the lathe. I suppose that I worked on it for an hour or so, yesterday afternoon.

I began, by making a thick washer of sorts, in order to use a slide hammer to remove the bearing retainer from the head stock for the sliding gear shaft.


IMG_0726 (768x1024).jpg


IMG_0732 (768x1024).jpg


I then began to remove the outer bearing block from the head stock. There are two allen head pin bolts, deep inside two holes, that need to come out, as well as the three obvious ones. I missed them, initially, because the holes were filled with oil. As well, I removed the nut, lock washer, and gear from the end of the clutch shaft, in order to remove the slotted screws and bearing retainer from the clutch shaft. This was necessary to finally be able to tap the bearing block, up and out.

IMG_0746 (1024x768).jpg

IMG_0751 (768x1024).jpg

IMG_0753 (1024x768).jpg

IMG_0756 (1024x768).jpg

I'll post this for now...

Brian
 

Brain Coral

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#94
I then moved on to the inner bearing block. Initially, I thought that I could remove the pump from the bearing block, and then remove the sliding gear shaft, with the brake drum attached, but I realized that I would have to remove the clutch shaft, with the oil pump and bearing block, as one unit, due to how the oil pump is attached. There were two hidden allen head pin screws in this bearing block as well...

IMG_0760 (1024x768).jpg

IMG_0762 (1024x768).jpg

IMG_0767 (1024x768).jpg

I will work on the next shaft, this afternoon.....After, I do my last quarterly paperwork !!! I am such a procrastinator when it comes to book keeping....

It looks like there isn't enough room to slide the "brake" shaft back, to clear the brake cone, so I will have to remove the brake cone support block, to remove the shaft. As well, I still have to remove the entire shift lever assembly.

IMG_0768 (1024x768).jpg


Brian :)
 

4GSR

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#95
You need one of them old hand impact wrenches made for removing screws. Dad had one just for removing those flat head screws.
I feel for you, for every bolt, nut, screw you remove, and the sub-assemblies lets hope you don't have to take them down. Cover that stuff with clean dry cotton cloth or similar to keep the dirt, grime and so forth from contaminating.
Thanks for posting detail pictures. Ken
 

Brain Coral

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#96
Thanks Ken,

I do have, and have been using one of those hand impact drivers, to remove the slotted screws. They work like a charm. I think that I might try to repair the two gears, by ordering and machining a couple of stock gears, for a press fit with Loctite for now, until I can afford a donor lathe.

Brian
 

4GSR

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#97
Thanks Ken,

I do have, and have been using one of those hand impact drivers, to remove the slotted screws. They work like a charm. I think that I might try to repair the two gears, by ordering and machining a couple of stock gears, for a press fit with Loctite for now, until I can afford a donor lathe.

Brian
That's what I would do. I've made several repairs in the past using stock gears. On of the last repairs I made, I broached a hex in the bore of the gear and milled a hex on the shaft for a snug fit to the gear. Locktighted the two together and installed tapered pin to hold in place. Worked like a charm. Broaching a hex in a larger gear like your fixing to do is probably out of the question unless you have a shaper or vertical slotter. Just offering a thought on keying a gear to the shaft.

The old lathe has had a hard life. It's in retirement now, won't have to work as hard now, right?

Keep us in the loop on the repair.

Ken

BTW: been watching your thread over on PM, That Tyrone guy, he something else. He has been there and done it, too. I like his postings, too.
 

Brain Coral

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#98
Hi Ken,

Thanks for your support and suggestions. I actually contacted that link to see how much it would cost to ship that lathe to my door. It is likely quite reasonable, given the weight, size and distance, but would render my lathe a real money pit. I would consider going to get it myself, but I fear that my 2010 F150 Quad Cab 4x4, even with the towing package and towing transmission, I would be beyond the legal towing limit. There are at least 3 or 4 items that I could use from that lathe. But, if I had that lathe at my shop, would I end up cannibalizing this one to fix that one? Or, would I have a hard time cannibalizing either one....

Yeah, I really like Tyrone. He's helped me out quite a bit over the years. Such a wealth of knowledge.

Brian :)
 

middle.road

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#99
Very enjoyable read. Started over coffee this morning and a brew this evening.
Admire your sticktooitofness in regard to diving into that headstock.
I guess I really need to pay attention when I 'trip over' any 'large' iron.
There's two that I've seen the last couple of years and I'm now racking my brain trying to remember.
Can't even remember the makes.
There's a scrapper an hour or so south of here that I real need to go back and visit. He hangs onto machinery when it comes it or
he picks it up at auction. Should start making a list up...
 

Brain Coral

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Thank you Dan :)

It's wonderful sites like this one, with all of you guys helping and encouraging, that make it possible for me to have the confidence to tackle such a repair and project.

I am a carpenter by trade, but always had an interest in machining. 7 years ago, I had not even touched a lathe, let alone run one. Up to now, I have purchased 9 lathes and two milling machines. I still have both milling machines, but have refurbished most of the lathes and sold them. Well, I still have 4 lathes in the shop, but one of them is just about ready to leave the roost. ;)

I really enjoy making parts and fixing these machines. It really challenges me, which I thoroughly enjoy. It still blows my mind, that I can produce a part to within a couple of tenths... but without you guys and this site, I would be nowhere near where I am now.

Cheers.... :)

Brian
 

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Not trying to encourage you, if you have a shipping depot nearby state side. You could get HGR to direct the shipment to that depot where you could pick it up. They are fairly open on who to use for shipping larger equipment like that lathe. My last lathe I bought from them, I had it shipped to a shipping depot in San Antonio. When it arrived, I went up there and picked it up. Of course, the lathe and stuff I bought, total weight was only 2800 lbs. I saved about $400 going that route rather than have it shipped to my door steps in Victoria, 120 miles away.
 

Ray C

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Enjoying the show here. Love big lathes! I remember reading early on that this LS was around 60 years old. Is that correct and do you know the year of manufacture? -Just curious...

Thanks

Ray C.
 

4GSR

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Yeah, Lodge & Shipley started introducing the Powerturn in late 1954 to early 1955. In that transition time, there are a few lathes out there that have subassemblies from the model X on the Powerturn models. Actually, the Powerturn was a makeover of the model X. I had a 20" L & S like Brians, born about the same time as his was born, too.
 

middle.road

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Enjoying the show here. Love big lathes! I remember reading early on that this LS was around 60 years old. Is that correct and do you know the year of manufacture? -Just curious...

Thanks

Ray C.
OK, do we really need to mention 60 yrs old and the 1950's in the same sentence? My knees might hear you! :grin:
And yeah, you are correct, the big lathes are cool.
 

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Brian,

I notice HGR has it marked down to $1000. If you had the ways and means to do so, I would pull the headstock, tailstock carriage, QCGB and leave the rest. As least get the headstock and leave the rest.
 

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Hi Ken,

A local fellow finally got to me with a shipping price, at mid week on that lathe, that was a lot cheaper than my other quote. But by the time I had put in the offer, the lathe had already been sold. It didn't show that it had been sold, and the salesman that I was corresponding with didn't know that either. I must have missed buying it by a day or so.

That's too bad..... but even at the better shipping quote, by the time I paid for the lathe, shipping, brokerage fees, taxes, and forklift on my end, it still would have added up to between $3,000.00 and $4,000.00 in my shop.

I absolutely love the area that I live in, but sometimes I wish that I was closer to heavy iron... :)

That was a really good lead Ken. I am still disappointed that I didn't buy it in time.

So, I will have to carry on and repair the lathe as best I can. Now that I know what to look for, I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Brian :)
 

4GSR

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Yeah, It's kind of the same way here, too. At least I wouldn't have to pay brokerage fees down here. Still shipping would have been around $1500 for me just to get it to near to me and transferred to a roll back and deliver, would easily add $500 to the price. Any old iron that comes up for sale down here is either worn out or too expensive to buy. I'll keep an watch for anything that comes up. Again, the gear shop in Dallas I used to do business with many moons ago, I'm sure have made these gears before. Probably be just as easy to get a gear shop up your direction to make them too. Like you were saying, find stock gears and splice in for replacements.
 

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Hi Ken,

Thanks for all of your help and encouragement... :)

At this point, I just have to look at it as maybe a blessing in disguise. As I have said before, the 3 winter months are usually my slowest in my business. I have the extra money on hand, but I might be wishing that I hadn't spent it, come April.

I finally got to the last shaft, late this afternoon. To push the shaft out of the head stock, I made a very simple "pusher". I took a piece of hex stock (didn't need to be hex, just what I had laying around), and bored one end a little larger than a 5/16" carriage bolt, to a depth of just a little deeper than the threaded length. I chose a carriage bolt, because it has a domed head, that fit the center drilled hole of the shaft, as well, it has a square flat just under the head of the bolt, to which I could use a wrench to keep the bolt from turning, while I tightened a nut against the hex rod. The other end of the hex rod was against the cast wall. It's hard to see what's going on in the pics, but as the nut is tightened, the whole assembly continues to grow in length, pushing the shaft, with control, out of the head stock.
 

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Brain Coral

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Wow.... kind of a weird new format for posting pics. I don't like it one bit...

Anyway..... it looks like the gears have been hardened beyond the root of the teeth by at least 1/4", which may prove difficult when trying to machine the original gear body down, to accept a gear ring.

At least I was able to push the shaft out of the head stock without any further damage.

Brian
 

4GSR

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That looks like straight sided splines used there. If so, that'll make that gear a little easier to make from a stock gear. I started to say something about the gear teeth need to be harden. What you are seeing on that gear is probably the results from flame hardening of the gear teeth. Not saying you have to do the same, but I would recommend some kind of surface hardening of the gear teeth. The stock gears, I believe are made from a medium carbon steel, which is not bad, but it's not 4140 steel. It should respond to flame hardening or even case carburizing.
 

Brain Coral

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Hi Ken,

You are spot on about the splines being straight sided. I hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out. Maybe I just might be able to bore and key a new gear, instead of trying to turn the original for a ring gear fit. That would take some finicky work to do it. I do have a dividing head with tail stock. I suppose that I could make a broaching plug with six grooves in it.

The last time that I bought four stock gears from Boston Gear, the teeth were hardened already. I had to use carbide to face them.

Brian
 

4GSR

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My dad used to make a sleeve for one of his customers years ago. It was a 6 splines with straight sided keyways. He made a broach sleeve with a indexing pin that would allow him to index over exactly 60 degrees for each keyway. Took a while to broach six keyways, it did work. In your case, you could probably cut two gears at one time provided the splines are the same. Just a thought.
 

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Hello all,

I am back with a bit of an update. After spending a couple of hours, fishing for the lost teeth in the bottom of the head stock, and painstakingly gluing them back on to the bare gear, one by one, I was able to get some accurate measurements on the gears. Oddly enough, this gear was easier to measure than the other one, as it has a bunch of bent over teeth. Both gears are exactly the same, with a 10 Diametral Pitch, and 32 teeth.

IMG_0943 (768x1024).jpg


IMG_0944 (768x1024).jpg

IMG_0946 (1024x768).jpg

So, I went down to my local bearing supplier and ordered two heat treated gears, as well as a few bearings, lock washers and lock nuts. I should have the parts in a week. The gears are coming from Martin Sproket and Gear. The difference between not having them heat treated and having them heat treated was $120.00 CAD to $160.00 CAD each.

I then explored the cluster gear, to see if it could be pressed apart, as there seemed to be a key present, and looked like a parting line.

IMG_0953 (1024x768).jpg

Sure enough, it pressed off no problem. This particular gear will be a much easier fix than the other one.

IMG_0980 (1024x768).jpg

Brian
 

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Well, I am back with a little update on the repair of the gears...

I picked up the parts that I had ordered from my bearing supplier. This little pile cost me over $500.00 CAD... and I'm not done yet....

IMG_1028 (1024x768).jpg

I made a mandrel to hold the "toothless" gear, in order to try and turn it down, for a "ring" gear. It was very hard, with sparks flying and the carbide tip breaking down. So, I turned the angle of the toolbit and took a much deeper cut, with a slower feed rate, and was successful in getting underneath the hardest part.

IMG_1013 (768x1024).jpg

After that, I took .030" DOC for each pass, at 1200 RPM and a feed rate of .008" PR and had good success, although the chips were a little stringy.

IMG_1019 (768x1024).jpg

Here's the finished gear blank...

IMG_1024 (768x1024).jpg

And here is the chunk of aluminium that I will make a "pot" chuck out of, to machine the new gears...

IMG_1027 (768x1024).jpg

I have a 1 3/4" annular cutter on order, which I will use in the mill, to remove 90% of the bore of the new gears, before I mount them in the pot chuck and machine them to size.

Brian
 

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Hello all,

My annular cutter arrived the other day, so it looks like I have no more excuses for not getting the gear repairs completed... ;)

IMG_1037 (768x1024).jpg IMG_1038 (768x1024).jpg

I did some further checking on the sliding gear shaft, to ensure that it wasn't bent from the crash.

IMG_1036 (768x1024).jpg

That's all for now...

Brian
 
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Brain Coral

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I am finally back, with an update... :)

I ended up making two pot chucks out of that piece of aluminium. One for the lathe, and one for the mill.

I first bandsawed off the bosses of both gears..

Then, I mounted the gears in the mill, and used the annular cutter to remove the majority of the bore, leaving approximately .250" to finish...

Now, back to the lathe, to complete the bore....

IMG_1082 (768x1024).jpg IMG_1088 (768x1024).jpg IMG_1095 (768x1024).jpg IMG_1121 (768x1024).jpg IMG_1124 (768x1024).jpg
 
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Ray C

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I am finally back, with an update... :)

I ended up making two pot chucks out of that piece of aluminium. One for the lathe, and one for the mill.

I first bandsawed off the bosses of both gears...

View attachment 265822

Then, I mounted the gears in the mill, and used the annular cutter to remove the majority of the bore, leaving approximately .250" to finish...

View attachment 265822 View attachment 265823

View attachment 265822 View attachment 265823 View attachment 265824

Now, back to the lathe, to complete the bore....

View attachment 265822 View attachment 265823 View attachment 265824 View attachment 265825 View attachment 265826
Brian,

Ouch... We can't see your last batch of photos. BTW: Glad you're back. I'm loving your "Big Lathe" project.

Ray
 

Brain Coral

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Then, it was back to the mill, to face the thickness down, to avoid the large interrupted cut of the hardened teeth in my rather small lathe. I could have done this operation, while I still had it in the mill for the annular cutter operation. This milling took many passes to complete, and I was glad for power feeds and rapid traverse on the mill.

Now, back to the lathe to complete the facing cuts. I had approximately .016" to remove, to match the original gear, so I took .008" of each face, using light .002" cuts per pass. Tips of the teeth were lightly chamfered, burs stoned, bore edge chamfered, and then it was ready to press onto the boss.

I cleaned both parts carefully with brake cleaner, applied the Loctite # 609 Retaining Compound to both surfaces and pressed it home.


IMG_1141 (1024x768).jpg


IMG_1142 (1024x768).jpg


IMG_1157 (1024x768).jpg


IMG_1158 (1024x768).jpg


IMG_1160 (1024x768).jpg


IMG_1161 (768x1024).jpg


IMG_1162 (1024x768).jpg
 

Brain Coral

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"Brian,

Ouch... We can't see your last batch of photos. BTW: Glad you're back. I'm loving your "Big Lathe" project.

Ray "

Should be good now... :)
 
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