Looking at a couple of South Bends

kopeck

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Hi,

I need a little bit of help. I currently have a Craftsman (Atlas) 6" Lathe. It's been fun bringing it back to life, I've made some parts on it that I couldn't have if I didn't have it so I can't complain but I'm quickly realizing it's limitations.

I've been looking for something bigger for a while, not necessarily a SB but something like a 9A is what I had in mind. A 9A and a Heavy 10 have come up for sale near me for pretty much the same money.

The 9A (644A) looks really clean from the pictures, a nice original machine, some of the parts are in SB boxes. I can still see scraping on the ways. It's pretty well equipped, 3 and 4 jaw, follow rest and milling attachment (something that I would like to have). It also seems to have all it's wrenches and other bits.

The Heavy 10 (CL 8187 A) isn't a looker, it's been painted and that paint is flaking off in places. It doesn't necessarily look abused mind you but pictures only tell you so much. None the less it's much more a used machine than the 9A. I know it comes with a 3 jaw chucks and some collets/drawbar. It might have more but I'm not counting on it.

I'm going to see the Heavy 10 on Sunday. There seems to be a lot of interest in it, the lady is letting me get first crack at it since I was the first to ask which is very nice of her.

I guess my question is, and maybe it's impossible to answer but what's the tipping point were the wear/tooling would make the 9A more attractive than Heavy 10? I kind of feel like if there's one or two more accessories with the Heavy 10 and it's not beat to snot it's the Heavy 10. If it is as it sits and it's a bit worn then it's far less clear. Adding things like a follow rest or a milling attachment ads up quickly as do repairs. Also, how would you know if the Heavy 10 had a hardened bed?

Sorry for the long post.

K
 
Heavy 10's with a hardened bed will have "flame hardened" cast into the bed. I would lean forward the 10 but I'm a bit biased because I own one. But it has a larger spindle bore pass through and usually will take a heavier cut too. I love my 10 but still have not found a great deal on a telescopic steady rest for it yet, they just keep going up in price. Does the 10 your looking at have the cast base or the sheet metal cabinet base?
 
If that's it that's got a lot of potential. I wouldn't call that horrible condition. Looks nicely tooled and has large dials and a 2 lever gear box.
 
That's the Heavy 10 in question. It doesn't look all that bad but I can't see the bed and that where I'm worried about wear.

Here's a picture of the 9A:

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It looks really clean but it's not a Heavy 10 either....

K
 
Actually they're both pretty good- buy em both! I'll buy one from ya LOL
The 8187 is the "toolroom" version which has/had the extra-precise leadscrew,
plus the 10 has the bigger spindle hole, bigger dials and can do 27 tpi compared to 9A
tough choice, eh? Too much of a good thing- looks like the 10 has the taper attachment too
hardened beds don't show the flaking marks- they are smooth- I think some of the early 40s/50s hardened ones are not labeled as such on bed

edit: Derf is correct, if it's hardened it will say so, I was mistaken
pss according to Doogie, I may not have been mistaken- ? he says not all hard beds were marked as such. But it's true that the carriage and tail would be still soft...
 
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The flame hardened bed ways didn't come out until the late 60's, that one is earlier. Even if the wear was worse on the 10", I would still take it over the 9". The 10" is more versatile.
I have a 9A and a heavy 10 with about the same amount of wear (a lot) and it doesn't seem to handicap me from making good parts. It's all about getting to know your machine.
 
Does the 9A have the motor/drive for it? Not seen in the pic.
 
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