Looking at a couple of South Bends

derf said:
The flame hardened bed ways didn't come out until the late 60's, that one is earlier. Even if the wear was worse on the 10", I would still take it over the 9". The 10" is more versatile.
I have a 9A and a heavy 10 with about the same amount of wear (a lot) and it doesn't seem to handicap me from making good parts. It's all about getting to know your machine.
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I was reading and I think SB started with hardened beds before that as a option but I'm not really sure when. Not seeing scrapings sound like a quick and dirty way to tell.

I can't wait to see the 10, I'm hoping it's decent. I just don't want to buy a project, I would rather buy something that's usable.

K
 
markba633csi said:
Actually they're both pretty good- buy em both! I'll buy one from ya LOL
The 8187 is the "toolroom" version which has/had the extra-precise leadscrew,
plus the 10 has the bigger spindle hole, bigger dials and can do 27 tpi compared to 9A
tough choice, eh? Too much of a good thing- looks like the 10 has the taper attachment too
hardened beds don't show the flaking marks- they are smooth- I think some of the early 40s/50s hardened ones are not labeled as such on bed

edit: Derf is correct, if it's hardened it will say so, I was mistaken
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It does have have a taper attachment. It's a interesting problem to have. I've been looking for quiet some time and then boom, two show up.

Doing some googleing it sounds like maybe they did have hardened ways as a option. I guess it wasn't until the late 60s/70s that they were standard.

K
 
Not all hard bed South Bend lathes are marked with a badge. The easiest way to tell is to look for hand scraping around the head stock area where it won't wear away. The hard beds were ground, not scraped. A hard bed isn't a panacea, as the saddle and tail stock are still nice and soft and prone to wear.

The 9A has small dials, so at the latest it's early sixties? The 10L has the large dials, so it might actually be newer. Looking up the serial number would resolve this.

Since the 10L is UMD, it probably has a smaller footprint than the 9A. Never was that fond of table top lathes for that reason.

The 10L has the expanded range gear box, large dials and looks like 5C collets with the collet rack. Taper attachment as well? That's a pretty desirable SB lathe. If it's 5C collets it's definitely the big bore.

With metal working machinery, top things are: #1 condition, #2 price and #3 tooling. Nobody can tell you the condition by a photo.

Also, don't kid yourself, at best you are buying a 50+ year old lathe so you are getting a project regardless. Even the 9A, which looks pretty cherry, will at least need a felt job, which means you pretty much have to disassemble the entire lathe. That paint job on the 10L, ugh, I think I would have to strip & paint.

Good luck with your decision.
 
DoogieB thanks for all the info.

Condition is key for me and what you said about them being 50+ year old machines is very true. I'm not expecting perfection but my little Craftsman ended up needing a lot of parts to make it work correctly and now I have a lathe that I have well more invested in than it's worth. Really though the learning experience made it all worth it but what I don't want to do it buy a machine that I'm going to have to sink a bunch of cash into just to make chips. The price on the 10L, if it's in OK condition, tooled as I see it is what I would consider fair to good. If it has more tooling and isn't worn much...well it might be a steal, at least in my area. You know I'm just going to post the price, it's fixed...someone is going to pay it if it's me or some one else. $1350.00.

The 9A sure looks like a cream puff and up until the 10L came up I was pretty excited to go look at it. I think if the 9" models had a larger spindle bore I would just get it as it probably is more than capable for what I want to do and is tooled nicely. Every time I look at that big spindle on that 10L plus the under mounted motor I think it's the machine for me though.

Sunday will settle a lot of things. :)



K

Edited to add price info.
 
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10L means that it has the large spindle bore.
My '63 10L has hardened ways, no flaking and no tag.
The collet closer is a big plus. Can't tell if it has the taper attachment. That's one of those "must have" accessories that is rarely used.

If you want pretty, get the 9. If you want a more capable machine, get the 10L.
 
Thanks for all the words of advice guys. Other than play in the head, chipped gears and wear in the ways are there other places I need to check on this 10L?

K
 
Get the 10 , 5C collets make it well worth it over the 9" . Pluses it's stronger , bigger , all one piece cast , no added table to hold it and the motor .
Can't choose buy both . Viola
 
I ended up passing on the lathe though it was really hard to do so.

The bed had some decent wear in it, more than enough to just catch you finger nail. The wear did seem pretty even over almost all the bed though which was interesting to me, on my little Atlas all the wear is up near the head stock. The head stock was sound, no gear issues and the spindle seemed nice and tight. The 3 jaw chuck was kind of beat up, you could see it had been crashed a few times. It's run out wasn't anything to write home about but that's 3 jaws for ya. It did come with an assortment of 5c collets though a lot of them were odd sizes. It also came with a follow rest and a stead rest which did make it much more attractive.

I think the price was right and I'm sure they sold it to the guy behind me. I had a hard time saying no, I almost said yes but at the end of the day I felt that it really needed to be completely torn down before it was used. There was plenty of rust and grime. The fellow that owned it used it for wood turning so everything was kind of sticky. I, like a lot of you I'm sure, have so many projects going on I just felt like this one was a bit more than I wanted to bite off at the moment.

I did meet some really nice people, I felt bad saying no simply because they were so accommodating. I also found out I REALLY like Heavy 10s. There's real feel of quality there, it ran quiet and smooth even with the tumblers engaged, nothing like my Atlas. I see a nice Heavy 10 as my goal at some point. I wouldn't mind paying more for one that was cleaner with less wear, more a long term investment. I might settle for a 9A or a 10K in the mean time if one comes up for the right price (I'm pretty sure the 9A I posted above sold this weekend as well). I have a few projects that are out of the scope of my little 6". I guess I might need a "bridge lathe". :)

Thanks for all the insight, I hope to become more a regular around these parts.

K
 
Well, I solved the problem. Another SB 9A showed up online with one not so great picture. After a few questions and some extra pictures I went to take a look and ended up buying it. I hope to pick it up this week, it's in a basement so I'll have to take it out in pieces.

The selling factor was the shape it was in, it shows very little wear and it is pretty well tooled. It's also on a SB cabinet which I really like.

It's not a heavy 10 but to get a heavy around here in the same condition it was going to be 3 or so times the price I paid for the 9A. I'm excited, though not so excited to take it apart...

I'll post some pictures once I get it.

K
 
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