Looking for a first mill and lathe

I'll voice a rather unpopular opinion.

I would suggest you look for a used Smithy 3 in 1 machine, preferably the Granite 1324. This is a great machine if If you're space limited, and are sure you will not need a mill that requires tight rigidity and a lot of travel.
  1. The lathe is good, and can be made very good by adding a QCTP, solid toolpost, and an inexpensive DRO, such as an Igaging set-up. Plus a stout, well made bench that is firmly secured to minimize vibration and allow for bed leveling would be a must
  2. The mill is limited in travel, especially in the Z. But like any machine, you would know this going in, and would also realize your depth of cut would be limited
  3. Smithy has a pretty good reputation, and their customer support is excellent
As others have said, if you have the space, think you will be doing larger projects in the future, and have the cash, then separate machines would be a much better alternative. But if not, then $1500 for the machine would still leave $1000 for tooling to start out.

I've had a Smithy Granite 1324 for a long time and eventually acquired separate lathes and a BP clone. But I kept the Granite, and use that lathe much more often than the others. But I haven't used the Smithy mill in a long time.
 
first thing buy once cry once . don't wast your time or money on a smithy I have used one once never again. mill drill is a joke. for the price you can get knee mill from central machinery .a knee mill is the only way to go. a 8520 would do you well. I have had one for 35 years. a lathe a atlas is a good starter lathe you can still pick up a good south bend 9 inch.
 
I think you could come in within 2500$ especially in your area; many machines were produced in and around Ohio.
For comparison I own:
6" Atlas lathe- 500$
12" Atlas- 840$
Diamond horizontal mill with vertical milling head- 1K$
misc tooling- 200-300$

Total: 2640$
Take away the small lathe and that's only 2140$
and machines are not as plentiful and more expensive in the west
of course, I acquired these machines one at a time over a 3 year period
 
I agree. I think that the $2400 budget is doable for the machines with some tooling. Tooling is a life long gathering anyway.

Roger L
 
Be patient, but relentless, and watch for a quality machine, in excellent condition, with comprehensive tooling. Avoid bare and neglected machines. Don't be afraid to extend your search radius.

Condition and quality are only everything.
 
I agree. I think that the $2400 budget is doable for the machines with some tooling. Tooling is a life long gathering anyway.

Roger L
In Northern California, $2,500 get's you a worn out ready for the scrapper Bridgeport with no tooling and a Chinese vise.( In my experience).
There are the occasional sweet deals from time to time but you better be the first one with the cash.
 
Personally I would not suggest a new 3 in 1 machine, because in reality if you compare to similar dedicated machines they really don't save you much in space and even less money. However if you are really interested in the idea, used is something else entirely as you can often find them cheap, much cheaper than buying a separate lathe and mill.

I frequently run across them on CL for $1000 or less, and in this area that makes them cheaper than most 9-10" lathes.


Location plays a large part in pricing, so take suggested prices here with a grain of salt, they are often not apples to apples, you need to find out what realistic prices are for your area. As an example I have a small Clausing knee mill. Out here in California, $2000-2500 is the going rate for these mills. There are places in the country where the same mill can often be found for $1000 or less simply because they are a lot more of them those areas.


Bigger often does not mean more expensive, in fact taken to extremes it often means cheaper. New a bigger machine costs more, but on the used market small machines hold their value better. Anybody can find room for a small machine so there is more demand for them by hobbyists and small shops. If you have the room and need for a bigger machine, there may be more deals out there. On the other hand, they take up more room, are harder to move (a couple hundred pounds vs 1000+), and may require 220v or conversion from 3 phase. None of these are that difficult to overcome but are potentially an added cost / hassle if a small machine is adequate for your needs. These are also reasons small machines hold their value.

Used can provide you with some savings, but also headaches. It helps a lot of you have somebody with experience to help you sort the junk from the good stuff. You can find a lot of machine tools in home shops that were bought, used a few times and then gathered dust. You can also find junk that has been cleaned up and painted to look nice and fresh, not always easy to tell them apart when you are starting out.

New import machines (and nearly all are imports these days except for Sherline and Taig which are quite small) can be really nice for a beginner as they come with instructions, parts / tooling support, and a warranty. Precision Matthews has a pretty good reputation, Grizzly is another popular choice for new. Both companies offer a wide range of options and sizes.

$2500 for a lathe and mill will be tough to do with new machines unless you stay to the very small side, mini-lathe and small bench mill. Used you are unlikely to get a large lathe and Bridgeport size mill, but being patient a 9-12" lathe and a bench mill or mill-drill would not be too hard to pull off and may be just fine for you.

Do not underestimate the value of tooling, it can easily equal or exceed the value of the machine.
 
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Well $2400 will not buy a full size Bridgeport and a 13" South Bend lathe in Ohio either. For $2400 you can pick up a 9" or 10" South Bend or similar lathe and a bench top Mill / Drill machine. If you are just starting out you do not need big machines. People say "buy once cry once" that makes sense if you know you want and need a large machine. For someone who has never used any machinery and wants to get started buy a good quality used machine that many people know about and can help you with and start making things. If you find that this is not for you then you have not put forth a large investment and you can probably get most of your money back if you sell them. If on the other hand you find that this is LOTS of fun and you really like making things you will do your research and find the machine that is going to do what you want it to do then "buy once cry once" and get the best machine or machines that will fit the type of work you want to do.

Just my 2 cents
Roger L
 
You never find exactly what you are looking for, usually a lot depends on what you find nearby and your budget. As far as used machines go there is a lot of junk out there no doubt, but even a worn lathe can make usable parts, you just don't want to pay new prices for a worn machine- this is where newbies get taken advantage of by the crusty old machinery dealer spitting tobbaco juice on your shoes
 
A couple of things:

Open your search radius if possible. Having lived in central Maryland I always extended my search as far as Harrisburg, PA and down into northern VA (A 2-hour commute one way for either location). Opening up the possibility of travel has allowed me to buy some really good stuff over the years. A large surface plate, large straight edge, a camelback, my first two milling machines, and my current milling machine(purchased in VA). Lesson learned: be willing to travel.:)

I started with a small lathe (Myford "M" series). It taught me ALOT. I eventually purchased two tiny milling machines(A Jefferson mill and an Atlas mill).
I kind of regret selling the Myford, it was a fantastic little lathe with alot of tooling. But, I was not disappointed to sell either milling machine and upgrade to a proper vertical mill. The tiny machines are nice and compact, but the tiny work envelope is a royal pain.:mad: Lesson learned: Buy the biggest you can fit into your workshop.

My very first cutting tools were some cheap import mystery tooling purchased from eBay. The first 3 all broke on the very first cut using the lightest cutting pass. Complete garbage and I remember throwing the styrofoam box of "new" cutters in the trash can. Lesson learned: BUY ONCE, CRY ONCE.

Tooling is important and I agree that it should be equated into your decision for a purchase.
If you're willing to do some cleanup work, there are some deals to be had. All of my machines looked bad when purchased but with some dedicated effort, they look and function exceptionally well. Lesson learned: Don't be afraid to put in some elbow grease. (It should go without saying that I'm not suggesting purchasing something that is clapped out or missing some major component)

I don't want to start a brand war, but I would steer clear of "most" Atlas lathes and even the milling machine. And I personally would never consider those three-in-one things. My reasoning is because it goes against my lessons learned as mentioned above.

Anyway, just my observations from my experiences.
 
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