Looking for validation/advice on upcoming 12-13" lathe & accessories purchase

Fallon

Fallon

Registered
Registered
Joined
Sep 17, 2014
Messages
31
A couple decades ago I learned a bit of machining on my mentor's old South Bend lathe, not a lot, but some of the basics. A few years ago I picked up an old cheap Atlas 6" lathe & got it back into working shape. But before I could really start using it, we moved & I sold it rather than move it. So now we are finally settled in, I have a shop & the number of projects I keep realizing I need a lathe for are piling up. So I'm looking to get a lathe to help support my tinkering & puttering hobby. I do tractor work (operating my Kubota L4060 & keeping it & implements running) on the side. I have a bad habit of picking up cheaper old implements & trying to get them back online.

A lot of initial projects are going to be making bushings or just getting some stock & pins turned to fit, have some assorted low pressure plumbing type fitting sot make as well. Later projects are likely to be more precision projects. Might be some gunsmithing type stuff eventually. In my head that old South Bend is kind of my benchmark for size & all the projects I envision could have been done on South Bend, so I've always assumed I'd get something that size, probably old american iron. I actually don't know what size/model that SB was, guessing a 9, maybe a heavy 10, but it had a quick change gearbox.

I've been keeping an eye out for some good old american iron for a couple years, but haven't found anything. Not a lot here in Colorado compared to back east. I'm capable of checking machinery out & have done a ton of research (not quite memorized http://www.mermac.com/advicenew.html), but lack practical experience. With the time vs. money proposition as of late I'm probably just going to buy a new machine that will be up & running without a rebuild or other unknown suprises. My budget is $5k for a machine & enough tooling to get me going.

I'm probably going to be talking with Matt at PM about:
  • Lathe
  • Cast stand
  • Leveling feet
  • DRO
  • Drill chuck
  • Boring/turning tool set
  • Threading tool set
I think I'm looking at a PM-1236 12″X36″ with the preferred package & just getting all the aforementioned stuff from Precision Mathews. I'd love to upgrade to the non-chinesium Taiwanese PM-1340GT, but not sure I can justify the extra $1,500. Part of me wants to wait & get it, but realistically over half my projects are going to be pretty rough is good enough (tractor implements aren't that precise). When I tick all the option & tooling boxes to get me inline with the list above, the PM-1340GT comes to around $7k, a PM-1236-T (baby 1340GT that should be the same quality as the bigger one, but has yet to get much reviews) hear is $6lk. Ticking all the boxes on the PM-1236 & adding in shipping gets me to $5k more or less. I could swing the 1340GT & blow my budget, but it would impact some other projects. I'd rather cry once why buying than cry every time I use it.

I may be able to find a better deal on some tooling, but am concerned about making sure stuff fits for now to get started. I'm sure I'll spend the next years or decades trolling Craigslist & auctions looking for deals once I re-familiarize myself with working on a lathe & more specifically whatever I end up getting.

Should I bother with the tooling from PM? Is it all carbide? From what I can gather in my research, I'll probably be best starting off grinding my own HSS. What size HSS should I be looking at? Any recommendations for a place to get some pre-ground HSS tooling to get started on day 1 & so I'd have something on-hand to copy rather than just all the YouTube videos I've seen?

Will probably pick up elsewhere online, unless PM has stuff in stock but not listed on their website:
  • Live center (looks to be included on the GT prefered package)
  • Some HSS tool stock
  • A gallon or 2 of hydraulic oil
  • Way oil
Gear I already have:
  • Digital calipers
  • Dial gauge with mag mount
  • Bench grinders (although I should probably get a better tool grinder, my current ones should get me started)
  • 1-2-3 blocks
  • Machinists level
  • Drill bits (many of dubious quality or condition)
  • Center drills
  • Oil can
  • Cutting fluid
  • 4x6 bandsaw
  • 500 gallons of diesel, as well as a few gallons of kerosene & a parts washer full of parts washer fluid
I don't have 220v to where the lathe will go yet, but am plenty capable of calculating wire gauge, voltage drop, getting appropriate breakers in & what not. Ran MC cable all over the shop for lighting, outlets & other stuff. Just finished building & installing a remotely controlled mag starter for a new true 5hp Quincy compressor (another case of getting burned out on rebuilding old high end gear & just getting new to get it working, the Saylor Beal rebuild will benefit from the lathe when I get it online). I'm only slightly concerned about assembly. My tractor will lift a hair under 1,900lbs & I use the pallet forks on it more than the bucket. But the lathe is going in my shop not the attached barn & the tractor cab won't fit under that door. Will figure out something moving it with a pallet jack, or borrow a 2 ton engine hoist from a friend to assemble in place.

Part of me wants to get a 3 phase machine right off the bat & VFD it, but It's a cost I can't justify yet. Would let me use the oscilloscope my wife got me for Christmas though...

A DRO is high on my accessories list, even though I could probably get by without it. I'm an IT guy at my day job & a nerd so inherently drawn to electronics. Plus I'm crap at math so any electronic aids to keep numbers straight are a very good thing. Any comments on the PM DRO vs. the Easson DRO?

Any suggestions on key stuff I'm missing from my plan & checklists? Might anybody be able to convince me to spend somebody elses money on a Taiwanese machine instead of the Chinese one? Any other thoughts or suggestions before I get around calling Matt at PM here in in a few days or before the end of the year would be appreciated.
 
Ied put the 500 gallons of diesel in my truck , or sell it and get the Taiwan lathe :big grin:
aside from that your plan sounds good
 
Go with the 1340. Pinch on the tooling, just buy it as you need it. There are many testimonies here of folks tooling up the machine right off the bat - and most of that tooling sits unused for years. Of course, if you can manage it - load up with tools, they don't go bad.

Even on the most basic package offered, the machine comes with a 4 way post and the basic attachments. Add in the taper attachment (mainly because with the way products are always changing that can be difficult to add later). A QCTP is nice but can be added later (and a 4 way post works well - I waited 25 years before adding the QCTP. If your funds really are that tight, reconsider your decision on the DRO. The DRO does sort out some of the math, but it adds complexity too (sort of a trade off).

I am comfortable using a DRO, and on a milling machine I believe the DRO to be a game changer. I don't see the DRO as being a big deal on a lathe. Granted, I have never used a lathe with a DRO - but I also know 2 machine shops that have multiple lathes in use - some with DROs and some without.

Going with 3 phase and a VFD? Your machine cost will be the same, but there is the additional time and money to sort out the power. Variable speed on a lathe is not a big deal. Obviously large numbers of lathes have been sold for more than a hundred years - not variable speed, and done lots of excellent work. For the jobs you mentioned, there is no benefit to the VFD (sort of a cool trinket - but those pins and bushings you make will not perform better). Using 3 phase is arguably better (?) slightly smoother drive. I have and like 3 phase because it opened up purchasing many other industrial quality machines. I have used an RPC for over 30 years and been very pleased with the performance (the machine simply plugs in and no modification is needed to the machine controls - some machines get started the day they come home).

If this is going to be your only machine - stay with single phase. If you hope to get a few more machines, take the plunge and set up a 3 phase system. A VFD is not the solution for powering multiple machines.

Yes on the preferred package. As well as the live center, it has the drill chuck (really should get that for day one), the work light, face plate, a 3 jaw chuck - all that is well worth the extra $600 and gets you going enough to make some pins and bushings.
 
Variable speed is certainly nice if you can afford it, as well as a collet set. The carbide tooling can wait. Same with the DRO
Mark
ps get a boring bar of some kind, or plan on making one
 
What is the difference between their standard and PEP package?
 
If you are patient and watch Craiglist you can find used Grizzly or Enco 1236 used with tooling and save a bunch of money. I see them from time to time for under $2K with tooling. Use it till you hate it, then sell it for near what you paid and buy your dream machine. Chinese lower end machines don't bring big bucks used, you can take advantage of that fact if you are patient. Not dissing China tools, just pointing out what I see in the used market place.
 
Good luck Fallon! I am in a similar situation (have been looking for use American iron for about a year and just can't find anything that looks like it won't be a major project). I've done that twice already and I just want something that's just ready to go.

I am trying hard to hold off until I have enough spare cash and brownie points with the finance manager to get a Taiwanese machine, and will continue to keep an eye out for a cream puff older USA lathe. Buy once cry once. Gonna need to take some action by spring of this year though.
 
Fallon:

I purchased a PM1022 lathe from Matt back in Sept. 2015. The reason that I mention that is because I also just purchased a PM-833T mill from Matt, which is made in Taiwan. Before I purchased the mill, I asked Precision Matthews a lot of questions about quality. They, and others, assured me that the quality of the castings and general quality of the machining is hands down better than a machine from China. After receiving my mill, I will have to say that they were correct. Not saying that the my PM1022 is bad, but the 833T from Taiwan is significantly better. I have attached a picture of the underside of the base casting on my mill just to show what it looks like. My lathe is not in the same category.

Second: Before purchasing my PM1022 lathe, I spent a lot of time keeping an eye out for an older American iron lathe. The only decent one I found was right after I purchased my lathe from Matt, and then that one was an older Jet, so not even "American Iron". I have kept my eye out ever since but have not come up with anything. The reality is that either the old is just that..old, or it is so huge that I have no room for it. So, I have been looking for about 3 years without much luck.
If it were me, I would buy the 1340GT and add to it as you go.

DRO thoughts:
One of our members recently recommended to me a DRO from AliExpress. It is probably the same DRO systems that everyone else sells for about 3-4 times as much. They have numerous systems so not this one in particular but the link will get you started. DRO system. Siton Technology

20171228_195053[1].jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top