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Managed to bust my new lathe :/

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ErichKeane

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For those who remember me, I picked up a 14" Reed Prentice a few weeks ago. I FINALLY got it running today, the T nut made for my tool post, and ungunked the 3 jaw chuck. I was flying high! I even put some CRS round into the lathe and started cutting it with some HSS tools. On top of the world!

Then, disaster... I decided to try power-feed. I'd been used to a Logan 10" without power feed, and a single half-nut engage and move lever. The RP however has a powerfeed engagement lever and a half-nut engagement lever. HOWEVER, it also has a crossfeed engagement lever, and a linear feed engagement lever (Z axis and X axis?). I didn't remember that, so I went to engage the power feed lever, it caught, then the gearbox selection lever exploded!


The previous owner apparently had a similar problem (it looks like someone did a terrible job welding this in the past), so I don't feel TOO bad. I'm hoping the RP yahoo group has someone with a replacement part I can buy, otherwise I have to figure out a good way to fix this one. I have a bit of an idea on how to do that (remake the 'stud' part out of cold-roll plus a hole in the middle, then mill the handle down below that and find some way to attach them with bolts/pins/etc, but hoping I can just get a replacement instead.

Oh well, one step forward, two back, eh?
 

Firstgear

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The thrill of victory to the jaws of defeat! You have the right attitude and you will get it fixed. My heart goes out to you!
 

Chuck K

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Hard to tell from the pics, but I think I would braze the parts back together and machine it to clean it up. I've fixed a lot of broken lathe parts by brazing them back together. If done right, it's a permanent fix. By the way...I'm jealous of your RP!
 

Bob Korves

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Just about every lathe that has multiple feeds has interlocks to prevent you from engaging more than one feed at once. Even really old lathes. If it once had one, and it is broken or something, it should be repaired so parts do not get destroyed by engaging more than one at the same time. Don't just fix it, try to fix it so it can't happen again...

On second thought, looked up Reed-Prentice, formed in 1912, that is perhaps old enough to be when machines did not have to be smarter than people.
 

Cooter Brown

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I mostly use Low Fuming Bronze, with StaySilv Black Flux and this stuff is crazy strong just as strong as a weld in most cases.... I also do Tig brazing but its very easy to get the metal to hot, gas brazing is very forgiving....

During WW2 the USA was gas welding air planes together and the UK was gas brazing their planes.... Both are strong enough to fly!

Is this the part that is broken? The end of the gear selector handle? We maybe be able to just make a new tube then pin and braze it on the handle....
298276
 
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AGCB97

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I had a similar experience but with less catastrophic consequence. The interlock lever was broken but was easily repaired and no further problems.
Aaron


DSCF1572.JPGDSCF1573.JPG
 

Chuck K

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Bronze weld. Brazing is for slip joints.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding this. When I think of bronze weld, I think of tig welding using silicone bronze and shielding gas. When I think of brazing I think of oxy-acet torch, bronze rod and flux. Both are capable of making strong joints. Harley Davidson used to braze their frames together.
 

brino

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I had a similar experience but with less catastrophic consequence. The interlock lever was broken but was easily repaired and no further problems.
Aaron
Aaron was that fixed with brazing?
 

ErichKeane

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I mostly use Low Fuming Bronze, with StaySilv Black Flux and this stuff is crazy strong just as strong as a weld in most cases.... I also do Tig brazing but its very easy to get the metal to hot, gas brazing is very forgiving....

During WW2 the USA was gas welding air planes together and the UK was gas brazing their planes.... Both are strong enough to fly!

Is this the part that is broken? The end of the gear selector handle? We maybe be able to just make a new tube then pin and braze it on the handle....
View attachment 298276
Yep, that's exactly the part and area. If I had to fix it on my own, my plan would be to remake the circular part on the lathe, mill a flat on it and on the surviving cast iron, then either pin or bolt them together!

I've also thought about seeing if I could find a piece of steel cheap enough that I could just cut into shape and mill the ends( since those are the only important places), but that was kind of a last resort.
 

NortonDommi

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Perhaps I am misunderstanding this. When I think of bronze weld, I think of tig welding using silicone bronze and shielding gas. When I think of brazing I think of oxy-acet torch, bronze rod and flux. Both are capable of making strong joints. Harley Davidson used to braze their frames together.
Hello Chuck,
A lot of confusion arises from the terminology. I did my time in a English speaking former British colony so I am biased toward the English terms most of which have very deep historical roots. As far as I am concerned Brazing is a purely capillary action using a low melting temperature metal,(above 450 degrees Celsius as differentiated from Solders which melt below 450 degrees Celsius),and was historically done with Brass. Bronze Welding which is different metallurgically has similar working temperatures but is not as hot short and can easily be built up. Audel's on Welding Handbook makes this very clear. Think of the difference between using 'Easy-Flo' and Tobin Bronze.
I am unclear as to when the term Braze Welding came into being but it was definitely started in America. Here is one reference to that effect:
https://www.esabna.com/euweb/oxy_handbook/589oxy14_1.htm Prior to that Brazing and Bronze Welding meant two entirely different processes and everyone was on the same page around the world.
Here is some useful reference on Brazing: https://www.lucasmilhaupt.com/EN/Brazing-Academy/Brazing-Fundamentals.htm
I'm probably just being pedantic,(I get really annoyed by people who call Welsh Plugs 'frost plugs' for example), but I happen to think that terminology is very important.
 

NortonDommi

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Note* Having had a little rant about terminology I mucked up. Should have written Welch and not Welsh. Probably comes from mixing up ancestry with a family name so apologies for that.
 

Cooter Brown

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Note* Having had a little rant about terminology I mucked up. Should have written Welch and not Welsh. Probably comes from mixing up ancestry with a family name so apologies for that.
Noooo those are called Freeze Plugs.... lol
 

MontanaLon

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Just about every lathe that has multiple feeds has interlocks to prevent you from engaging more than one feed at once. Even really old lathes. If it once had one, and it is broken or something, it should be repaired so parts do not get destroyed by engaging more than one at the same time. Don't just fix it, try to fix it so it can't happen again...

On second thought, looked up Reed-Prentice, formed in 1912, that is perhaps old enough to be when machines did not have to be smarter than people.
It would be interesting to see historical examples which show the advances of lathe abilities as they came into being. My guess is that half nuts came into use before power feeds. At some point power feed was added to a lathe with half nuts and within about the first 15 minutes of use someone managed to engage both at the same time and break the machine. The lockouts probably came into being because the manufacturer was getting complaints about machines breaking for exactly this reason and wanted to stop the nasty telegrams.

In other words, the intelligence of the user has very little to do with things going sideways. You can still find machines which don't lock out power feed with half nut use. But the manufacturers are on the other side of a giant ocean and they don't care, it is easy to ignore emails.
 

Bob Korves

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In other words, the intelligence of the user has very little to do with things going sideways.
Agreed, my original comment was tongue in cheek. The reality is Murphy's Law (Anything that CAN go wrong eventually WILL go wrong.) No matter how good we think we are, we all make mistakes.
 

john.k

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The previous repair is so bad,its likely to have failed under its own weight.......braze welding(which is filling a vee d out groove with bronze)......not silicon bronze ,which is best restricted to sheet metal and water fittings.,but tobin or nickle bronze,which while a bit harder to get to wet,is equal in strength to steel......Incidentally,when welding cast iron,use a bit of activated scaling powder first ,to make the bronze wet,then change over to borax flux as soon as the surfaces are wet....The scaling powder is apt to make a porous deposit if overused.
 

ErichKeane

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Finally got a few hours in the shop and pulled the lathe apart. It required quite a bit of disassembly to get this far!

By the time I was done, the welding shop near my shop was closed, so I didn't get a chance to ask him to do it, but I might try a shop near my office. I have all weekend in the shop (first/last for a while!) So it would be nice to have it welded or brazed back together by then!
 

rjitreeman

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Sand the broken mating surfaces slightly. Hole will be undersize and oval. Braze together and then the trick is to mount it so you can bore the hole back to size and location.
Good luck.
 

horty

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Finally got a few hours in the shop and pulled the lathe apart. It required quite a bit of disassembly to get this far!

By the time I was done, the welding shop near my shop was closed, so I didn't get a chance to ask him to do it, but I might try a shop near my office. I have all weekend in the shop (first/last for a while!) So it would be nice to have it welded or brazed back together by then!
I not saying the way I would fix that is the right way, worst way, or whatever way.
I see that your not really experienced at welding or brazing, (no disrespect) but I tell you how I would do it if it was mine,,and in-case someone else might want to give it a try..

Bevel out both pieces so all the broken rough casting is smooth, but leave a very small indication at the inside edges by the screw just so it will still fit in its proper position, clamp it securely in position, once its heated and tinned it should braze up great and will be none in the thread are, sounds easy, but does take some skill and experience, and need to really keep an eye on it.
Tim
 

ErichKeane

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I managed to find a Fab shop right next to my office and their welder seemed really confident about being able to fix it. So, I'm giving that a chance.

If it ends up breaking again, I figure I can turn the top piece and bolt it to the arm of the casting easy enough.
 

ErichKeane

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I got the part back last night. The shop tig welded it back together and it feels really strong. I ended up having to drill the hole back to round a little, and grind the welds flat to get the handle to work right, but all seems good!

Today will hopefully be a few hours of reassembly.
 

ErichKeane

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Long morning, but its all back together :) I haven't cut anything, but I ran it through gears and it seems to work fine. It ended up being quite a bit of work, so now I suspect a nap is in order!
 
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