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Metal clock from wooden clock plans

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dickr

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#1
I've been looking at several different plans for wooden clocks with the idea of using those plans for making a metal clock. Wall type, not having made a clock before I'm wondering if that is practical ? Clayton Boyer, Nick Andronis, and Brian Law have some interesting clocks, but Clayton's plans are all for tracing onto wood. I like some of Laws because he gives all the dimensions and can work in metric or imperial. The machining is not a problem (only time) if I can rely on the blueprints/plans.
Any comments would be appreciated
PS
I notice that Brian's clocks all seem to be metal (and beautiful) but I think he makes them up (plans) himself.
dickr
 
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#2
Hi dickr.

I think that while it is possible to make one of these beautiful clocks from metal it may not be practical.

The reason for this is that the components are rather large and will be too heavy to operate correctly, if made in metal.

One of a clocks biggest problems is inertia that is why the wheels at the fast end of the train are crossed out. The wheels are constantly stoping and starting and need to be very light, on the slower wheels this is not so much a problem.

But heavy wheels cause more friction and loose power. A clock train is in constant high gear and any friction is a killer, even adding more power to overcome the loss i.e. a heaver drive weight often makes the problem worse.

However, if you think you can overcome these problems by the use of thinner wheels etc then it may well work.

It is posible to scale down to save weight, but remember the pendulum length cannot be changed.

If you think I can be of any help Just ask Brian.
 

dickr

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#3
Thanx Brian. That makes all the sense in the world and I never even thought of it. I'll have to come up with a different project, idea, plan, scheme, etc. Sure glad I put that out there before I had a bunch of wheels with points on them.
I was thinking of the metal because the woods become so expensive and the metal I have laying around. I also thought of nylon , delrin, and a few lighter plastics but they don't have much strength and would not look very attractive. Thanx again Brian

dickr
 

praxim

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#4
Aluminium?
 
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Tom Griffin

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#5
Dickr,

Here's one from Gary's Clocks that is made of aluminum. Looks like a fun project to me.

Tom


Joe Petty Clock
 
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That Looks like a good place to start Tom. I had discounted alloy as a material on account of Galling and changing due to expansion, so perhaps I had better review my thinking.

Probably more to the point, I do not know enough about modern alloys.

However, back to the point looking at the clock in Garys web site a few points spring to mind.

I would releave the sides of the wheels to further lighten them and produce a pleasing rim for the teeth.

Reduce the size of the axles to reduce friction.

Balance the hands.

Anodize the alloy.

I think the timekeeping problem comes from making the pendulum rod heaver, this has shortened the effective length.

That's about all I can think of at the moment. But a matter of general interest springs to mind.

It is often thought that the length of a pendulum is fixed for a given time period.

But because of the change in gravity, a seconds pendulum is 39" long at the equator but 39.206" at the poles.


Keep thinking Dickr

Brian.
 
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Tom Griffin

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#7
That Looks like a good place to start Tom. I had discounted alloy as a material on acount of Galling and changing due to expansion so perhaps i had better review my thinking
.Probbly more to the point , I do not know about modern alloys.

How ever back to the point Looking at the clockin Garys web site. a few points spring to mind .

I would releave the sides of the wheels to further lighten them and produce a pleasing rim for the teeth.

Reduce the size of the axles to reduce friction,

Ballance the hands

Anodeise the alloy.

I think the timekeeping problem comes from making the penduum rod heaver this has shortened the efective length.

Thats about all I can think of at the moment . But a matter of general interest springs to mind,

It is often thought that The length of a pendulum is fixed for a given time period, but because of the change in gravity A seconds pendulm is 39" at the equator and 39.206" at the poles.



Brian.
Brian,

I would expect any metallic alloy to be more stable than wood with respect to both temperature and humidity. Lightening the gears would be a good idea to reduce the total energy requirement due to mass and to reduce friction at the pivots. I know ball bearings are not normally used in clocks, but on larger and heavier gears like this, that might be an option as long as they are not sealed or shielded.

Anodizing the gears different colors would be fun, but would get pretty pricey unless you did it yourself. I suppose you could have them all clear anodized and dye them different colors yourself.

A larger caseless clock like this would look great on the wall as a sort of metal sculpture.

Tom
 
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#8
Hi dicker
I hope this all helps it seems that your idea may well be posible.

If you find a particular clock that you like I will be happy help if required .

Tom
A few modern clockmakers are using ball bearings on the slow moving (High load) spindles.

Brian.


Mods
I dont know what happened with the double post is it possible to remove it, sorry.
 

dickr

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#9
Now I need to ask Tom why sealed or shielded bearings are not advisable. I got bunches of micro bearings. The other materials are still possible but just to modify for weight etc. could even drill and ream some shafts for weight relief. When I get to the point of a particular wall hanging/clock I'll have more questions. got a lot of help comin in here. Thanx guys
dickr
 
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Tom Griffin

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#10
Now I need to ask Tom why sealed or shielded bearings are not advisable. I got bunches of micro bearings. The other materials are still possible but just to modify for weight etc. could even drill and ream some shafts for weight relief. When I get to the point of a particular wall hanging/clock I'll have more questions. got a lot of help comin in here. Thanx guys
dickr
Sealed and shielded bearings would have too much drag for use in clocks. You would need open bearings, thoroughly cleaned to get rid of any grease and oiled with clock oil. Too bad you have all those bearings that you can't use. What a drag! :lmao:

Something to consider though, you might be able to pop the seals off the bearings you have.

Tom
 

David Morrow

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#12
I have been building Gary's clock ( a very long term project ) out of brass & aluminum. A local guy contacted me about his build and the trouble that he was have making it run properly. He really dug into the gear arithmetic and found that the escapement wheel should be 20 teeth, not 18 as designed. Once he made the new wheel it ran perfectly.

This is my build to date :
http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/garysclock/garysclock.htm

However, in the time since I started the clock, I have had a huge education in my basement shop so, once I go back to the clock, I'll likely remake a lot of the parts.
 

dickr

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#13
I went to "Gary's Clock" web site but could not print out the blueprints/plans. Apparently have to have a special program I don't have . The only way I could print it would be "PDF" files I guess. Not being a computer literate the other way is not something I can do or am aware of. Other clock plans give you drawings IF you pay for them but will not give dimensions ??? because they're afraid of people sharing them for CNC. I paid $26 for a simple set from Clete Boyer and got them minus gear dimensions. You're suppose to paste them on the wood and trace, that doesn't work on metal or plastic to my satisfaction. Sent a note asking about that and never got an answer. Got the money why bother !!!
At this point frustration is what I've got so far.
PS -- Thanx Brian for the info on gears. Very interesting and SMALL. WOW.! !
Still looking though !
dickr
 

David Morrow

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#14
I have the DXF and the PDF files for Gary's clock. Gary gave me his blessing to distribute them free of charge when he shut his site down. I was getting a huge number of hits on those files every month and I knew the traffic wasn't for clock makers so I removed them. If you'd like to have copies, email me at djmATldrider.ca and I'd be happy to email them to you.
 

dickr

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Now let me see if I can answer these in the correct order. Steve ask if it was a dxf format ? I can only say I have a HP 5550 printer for the reg. size (8 1/2 x 11) I can print the pdf but that's all. As you can see beyond that it's Greek to me. when you say you print them out full size do you mean the dimensions or prints? If I have the dimensions on a legible clear print that's all I need. Doesn't have to be to scale. I'll check my spam folder to see if it stopping things. I appreciate your effort.
Hi Dave Yes I'd like to have the pdf plans I assume they have all the dimensions. I don't have CNC I just thought that can't be that difficult to build one. Time I have (maybe) I'll send you an Email. gotta understand I'm still amazed about cell phones.
Thanx to all the help on this.
dickr
 

David Morrow

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#16
I have uploaded the PDF and DXF files temporarily because of the interest on this thread. I don't know how long I'll leave them there; I'll probably just check to see if the download volume goes through the roof again from the web crawlers. If it does I'll have to remove them. Hope this helps those of you who have a real use for them.

You should be able to go to this link, right click and Save As...
http://www.ldrider.ca/cnc/garysclock/PDF/
 

dickr

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#17
Hi Dave
Got #1 copied and ran out of ink. I'll get #2 wed. Unfortunately we live about 50+ miles from a computer type store. I did try to send you a private mess. Your message board is full it said. and no more could be added. (popular guy). Thanx for the pdf file anyway, hope it doesn't get flooded.
 

David Morrow

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Hi Dave
Got #1 copied and ran out of ink. I'll get #2 wed. Unfortunately we live about 50+ miles from a computer type store. I did try to send you a private mess. Your message board is full it said. and no more could be added. (popular guy). Thanx for the pdf file anyway, hope it doesn't get flooded.

I'll leave the files there for a while.

Apparently four PM's constitutes a full Inbox around these parts :) I'll keep an eye on the forum and make sure you get what you need.

David
 

Tony Wells

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#19
David, the default message limit is 50 messages. 4 is not full.
 

David Morrow

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#20
David, the default message limit is 50 messages. 4 is not full.
I deleted all of my messages today but there no more than 4, maybe 5 in there. And I did get at least one email that my limit had been reached.
 

Tony Wells

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#21
Do you think you may have actually had the limit, or do I need to investigate a possible problem in the PM system?
 

David Morrow

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#22
Do you think you may have actually had the limit, or do I need to investigate a possible problem in the PM system?
I wasn't anywhere close. Definitely just a handful. Don't investigate on my account but you may have a systemic issue to deal with that may affect others. Your call.
 

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#23
Hi all
I have a number of sets of "wooden" clock plans all in pdf format. These are all free to use except for commercial purposes. If there is enough interest in them I'll send the files to anyone who wants them . These are NOT my designs, but include the contact details of the designers and sources for dxf files.
My interest is that I'm attempting to make one out of perspex and lit with leds.... early days on this for me and i'm still working on the how to stage.

Send me a pm if you are interested or email me stephen.french@fsmail.net
 

dickr

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#24
Well I got the plans for the "Brian Law" clock #1. Gonna try doing it in wood and acrylic gears. Got the acrylic really cheap so it won over aluminum. So if it's to soft I'll have lots of experience in cutting the gears anyway.
Gonna try once more to get Steve French's plans. Seems to be some confusion, I think on my part to get the message to him.
dickr
 
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steve323

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#25
I know this is an old thread, but I don't see any reason why a wooden clock plan can't be modified to be made from brass. You would probably want to scale the gears down to a much smaller size while maintaining the tooth counts. Obviously, the pendulum length would not scale.

Many wooden clock plans I see appear to be scaled up versions of traditional clock designs. All clocks are doing the same thing, which is converting the pendulum swing into rotation of the hour and minute hands. The gear ratios are the same.

Steve
 
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