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[4]

Milling Lever Lock Picks from Single Piece of Steel?

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SidebarSam

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#1
I am completely new to machining and on the cusp of buying both a 7x16 lathe and mini mill. The primary purpose of the these machines will be locksmith tools/prototypes. A very common tool for lever locks is known as a two in one pick. Without a lathe and mill the finger/flag would be silver soldered to the round shaft.

I'm unsure about the best way to mill the circumference around the finger or flag part of the tool using a single solid piece of steel.

Right now the only thing I can think of to accomplish this would be to mount the tool vertically and than rotated under mill using a rotary table. Is there other ways to accomplish this or is that proper way to machine it?

Here are some pictures of a store bought "two in one" pick.

Chubb Battleship Pick
a79H8fZl.jpg
 
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mikey

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#2
You could turn it and leave a large ring on one end, then mill off the excess to create the finger and debulk the base of the finger. Then clean up the base with a file. Of course, you can also use a rotary table but you sort of have to buy the lathe, the mill and the rotary table. Now that I think about it, you can actually do this with just a lathe, a hacksaw and a file.
 

SidebarSam

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#3
Thanks for the reply, I will give that a try first. Both lathe and mill should be arriving in the next week and I'll wait on the purchase of the rotary table. Though I would probably only need the smallest size, most of the rotary tables I see for sale are pretty expensive.
 
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chips&more

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#4
Hi and welcome to the HM. How many are you going to make? Making it a solid one piece could be a waste of material and LOTS of machining time. If you only need one or two then I would make it a two piece construction and silver solder together. Or spline together. Or square shaft together or something…Dave.

Please note, turning down or milling off large amounts of material on small machines can take some time.
 
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SidebarSam

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#5
I would probably be making them fairly frequently as I would need a different tool for each different lock (each has different keyway and space between the levers or discs.). The tool I posted is an example of one of the more simpler keyways, and the tool also doesn't have markings to to read which lever and what depth it is set at. I could probably silver solder the finger/flag on the tool above but am worried it may not be as strong as a solid piece.

What I'm planing on my first project is a Abloy disc detainer pick (pictured below) which is slightly different than the one above but the tool works in the same way. Here is a picture of the only commercially available pick for this specific lock. Most my projects will be very similar to these two tools I have pictured.

Abloy Tool
pJMguyal.jpg
(Note: this tiny tool sells for $660. For size reference the width of the very top part of the tool is 6mm and the handles are about 1" in diameter.)

On this tool you can read the space and depth of the pick which allows for decoding. Knowing the code you can cut a working a key after picking the lock open.

As you mentioned I am concerned about having to turn or mill steel frequently, and also work on such a small scale . The tools need to be made out of steel for strength but I will never need to turn down anything thicker than a 1/2" steel round bar at about 4-6" long. The handles will probably be 1" in diameter but those can be made out of aluminium or brass. The handles are attached to the pick via set screws.

Do you think working with such small diameters will require a steady rest? I just realized I will probably need one. LMS sells a 0-1" steady rest I was thinking I may have to purchase.

Thanks for the input,
Sam
 

EmilioG

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#7
Abloy locks are one of the top 3 locks made. I had no idea that an Abloy could be picked with a store bought tool.
It can't be easy. Let us know how your project works out.
 

SidebarSam

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#8
Abloy locks are one of the top 3 locks made. I had no idea that an Abloy could be picked with a store bought tool.
It can't be easy. Let us know how your project works out.

Will do, I look forward to posting the progress. The Abloy tool above is for their Classic system which was designed in 1907 and is still produced today (though pretty uncommon in the US). The newer Abloy locks such as Protec, and Protec 2 are just about the most secure locks in the world.
 

SidebarSam

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#9
I received the mill/lathe on Monday. Having no machining experience it's been a pretty slow process getting started. Today I took the first few steps towards making the tool for the Abloy. I'm having some problems with the rod deflecting as I'm turning to such small diameters. I ordered a follower rest but it has not arrived yet. Each of these pieces was turned down to size an inch at a time. I would have to turn down to size, move rod an inch further out of the chuck, turn down to size, pull it out another inch and so on. The finish was rather poor so I cleaned it up with a file.

Tomorrow I will try drilling the center out of the piece on the top so that the middle piece can fit inside of it. After that I will shape the pieces on the mill. Both of these are made from 1144 steel.
KOYsGoDh.jpg
 

SidebarSam

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#10
I tried drilling the rod yesterday and things did not go great, though eventually I did get the a hole all the way through. I suspect my trouble came from the fact the tailstock was not perfectly centered with the work piece. I still need to find the best way to get that reasonably centered.

Anyway I realized after drilling the hole that both the pieces I started with were too short. So today I decided to restart and and focus only on the tension part of the Abloy tool. I also decided that it would be easier to mill the shape I needed the tip to be before turning the entire length of rod down to size.

This is what I'm left with now. You can see from this new picture just how much longer the new piece is. I am quite happy with this and it fits the keyway of the lock perfectly as well. The extra length will give a much more comfortable picking experience.

Cemjv01l.jpg
LzL3DVbl.jpg

So tomorrow I will need to mill a small section of this new piece and then it will be complete. From there I will start on the pick part of the tool which will likely be the hardest part to make. Not only do I need to drill a perfect diameter hole all the way though the 5.8mm rod, I can only mill some of the the piece and the rest will need to be done by hand with a dremel and files.
 

SidebarSam

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#11
Yesterday I made the cuts that I needed on the tension part of the tool. Later that day I realized that I milled them backwards! The part was not salvageable so I machined a completely new piece with the proper cuts and did it much more efficiently than the first two attempts. Just now I got the chance to test fit it in an actual lock and it works perfect. The fit is really snug in the keyway which is generally a good thing in these types of tools.

Today comes the hard part which is making the pick portion of the tool. I am having trouble with the part bending/defecting as I'm milling. I don't know exactly what to do about this. I looked into collet blocks but I would think I need something more adjustable than that. Another idea I had is to make some sort of jig. I could cast some resin into a rectangular cube with the part inside and then mill the cube and part together. That way the resin would give some support to the piece.

Anyway if all goes well I'm hoping that maybe by the end of this week I'll have the Abloy picked.


Fits perfect!
 

David S

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#12
I haven't worked on disc detainer locks so this is interesting. Only work on "high security" lever locks like S&G and chubb. We use titanium for some of the probes.

Are you building this to not only manipulate to open, but also to decode in order to determine the bitting and make a key?

David
 

cjtoombs

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#13
I was watching a video on a home built rifling machine in which he refered to a tool to turn small, long (~.30" x 30+") rods to use with the rifling machine. I looked up the tool, it had a hole that the rod went in, I think it had some supports built into it, and a tool that was pushed forward by a screw. You put this whole setup in the tool post and it provided the guidance, tool support and tool advance all in one unit. I looked quite slick, and If I were going to be turning long skinny rods, I would build one. I can't remember where I found the info, but I remember enough about it that I could reproduce it. Hope my description was good enough for you.
 

SidebarSam

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#14
I haven't worked on disc detainer locks so this is interesting. Only work on "high security" lever locks like S&G and chubb. We use titanium for some of the probes.

Are you building this to not only manipulate to open, but also to decode in order to determine the bitting and make a key?

David

My main goal right now is just to pick the lock open but I plan on adding the markings (for each disc and what depth) that will allow for decoding as well. The markings should make picking the lock easier too. There are only 6 positions for the discs and they are in 18 degree increments. I don't know the spacing between the discs off the top of my head but I can measure that with a digital caliper.

I hope to make some lever lock picks pretty soon. There are a couple keyed safe locks (Mauer Varos, S&G 6804) that I would like to get open. My next project though will be a tension tool for the newer style Bramah locks.

I was watching a video on a home built rifling machine in which he refered to a tool to turn small, long (~.30" x 30+") rods to use with the rifling machine. I looked up the tool, it had a hole that the rod went in, I think it had some supports built into it, and a tool that was pushed forward by a screw. You put this whole setup in the tool post and it provided the guidance, tool support and tool advance all in one unit. I looked quite slick, and If I were going to be turning long skinny rods, I would build one. I can't remember where I found the info, but I remember enough about it that I could reproduce it. Hope my description was good enough for you.
Thanks for the info, That makes a lot of sense and doesn't seem to hard to build. I'll be working on the pick portion of the tool tonight and maybe I'll see if I can make something similar.
 

SidebarSam

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#15
I just now finished some of the pick portion of the tool. I'm pretty happy with how it turned out so far but there is still a ways to go. I ended up stacking parallels underneath the piece when I was milling to keep it straight and that worked well enough to prevent bending. The tube has a thickness of roughly .04" .

I might do some more work on it tonight. From here I will see how much more material I can remove with the mill and from there finish with the Dremel and files. After that I have a few more inches of turning to do and then drill the back half of the pick. If I can get this piece finished I can start working on picking the lock.


 

SidebarSam

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#16
I made a good amount of progress on the pick portion of the tool today. Milling the 5.8mm diameter .04" thick tube went OK. It took me about 100 (no exaggeration) light passes on the mill before I got to almost the point where it needed to be when the tube suddenly bent. The bend is very slight so I think the part may be salvageable. It's also thin enough now that I can bend back with my hands if need be. I'm slightly concerned because of the tight the tolerances but I'm so close to finishing I don't want to restart. At least now I know where I need to stop if I have to make another one.

After removing the slightly deformed part from the mill I finished the rest with a Dremel, files, and then sandpaper. The pictures below shows the tool after being removed from the mill and where I am currently at. At this point all I need to do is turn the rest of the base and drill the center. If I finish that tonight I'll be ready to test it on a real lock.

After removing from the mill


After using the dremel and files to remove excess material
 

SidebarSam

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#17
I finished the pick portion of the tool and now I can work on picking the lock. I've actually been working on picking it for the last few minutes. I haven't got it open yet and there is room improvement but it is definitely capable of doing so.

There are a couple things I noticed now that will/would make picking easier. First off is the tolerances. I think if I made the tool just slightly smaller it would make sliding in and out of working in between the discs easier. Right now it feels too snug. When or if I make a second tool it will be just a little bit smaller. The second thing would be the handles with markings for the space and depth which I plan to make tomorrow. Right now it's hard to apply tension because the base of the tools are thin and smooth. Picking is also very difficult because I have no visual indication of the depth of the pick.

So tomorrow I'll get started on making the handles with markings for space and depth. The discs are spaced 1.4mm apart and there are 6 depths for the discs in 18 degree increments. I'll use either 3/4" or 1" aluminium round stock for the handles. So far everything I have machined has been 1144 steel and I'm very much looking forward to working with a softer material.

Closeup of pick and tensioner



Fully inserted into a Abloy 3020 padlock
 

royesses

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#18
Welcome to the forum. Very impressive for someone new to machining.

Roy
 

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#19
Abloy Classic Picked!


Tonight I finally got an Abloy picked with my tool.


Though the first tool I completed was capable of picking the lock there were some flaws that I found that if corrected would make picking much easier. Yesterday I decided to make a second tool and this time it only took about 5 hours compared the 3-4 days to make the first tool. This second tool works much better and is easier to use.

I still need to make the depth/space markings for the handles but it's nice knowing that I don't need them to pick the lock.

The first tool is on top, the newer tool is on bottom


I plan to make a few more of these and than I'll move onto making a tool for a different lock.


Welcome to the forum. Very impressive for someone new to machining.

Roy

Thanks mate! I still have a lot to learn though.
 
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SidebarSam

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#20
Since I last posted I had a lot of success with the Abloy tool, in fact I've picked open all of the Abloy Classic locks that I currently have. The tool works better than I could have imagined.

With the success of the Classic tool I started the search to find another lock that I could make a tool for. After disassembling and examining the rest of the Abloy lineup I decided to start building a tool for the Abloy DiskLock Pro. The tool is close to completion, but I reached a point that I wanted to ask some advice before I proceed.

Here are some pictures showing the progress of this project..

Test Fitting Tensioner Tip


Begining of turning the 1.3mm shaft of the tensioner


DiskLock Pro Key, Tensioner complete, and the start of the picking portion of the tool


The 1.5mm hole needs to be about twice the length of the key bidding


This is where I would need to drill the 1.5mm hole a minimum of 3" deep





So I'm at a point where I need to drill a 1.5mm hole into material a minimum of 3" deep on the lathe. Ideally this hole should be 4-4.5" deep, but I can make a functional tool with 3". The issue is that the 1.5mm drill bits have a little less than an inch of flute to work with. So even if I drill both ends that leaves me with a little less than two inches. Right now the only idea I have around this is to drill the front portion of the pick with the 1.5mm drill bit, than I drill the back with something larger/deeper like a 3mm drill bit. Then I create brass spacers (The spacers would be the length of the 1.5mm flute, and would be 3mm OD and 1.5mm ID.) The spacers would fill the empty space left by the larger drill bit and center the pick portion of the tool inside the the tensioner portion.

Does anyone know how I would go about drilling deeper holes with tiny drill bits?

Also just drilling the holes can be a problem for me, many times the drill bit will just spin freely in the drill chuck as I gently push it into the 1144 steel. Right now I'm using the standard drill chuck that my LMS lathe came with. I've done some research on tooling that could aid me in drilling tiny holes. Things such as smaller drill chucks, and sensitive finger feed drill chucks.

Would anyone of you recommend these tools or anything else that I may have overlooked?


Thanks guys, any help is appreciated!
 

David S

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#21

cjtoombs

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#22
You should take a look at gun drills and gun drilling. They are made for drilling holes with very high L/D ratios. Otherwise, you will need to drill past the flutes and clear them often with a regular twist drill. One problem with regular twist drills is that they don't tend to drill stright on very deep holes, so if that is a requirement, then the gun drills are the way to go. That not drilling quite straight may be a problem with going from both ends, they may not meet as well as you need in the middle. It's quite a problem you have. If not a lot of strenght is required, could you mill a half round in two flat pieces with a ball end mill and silver or soft solder them together, forming a hole in the process? You could smoke the hole halfs before soldering to prevent the silver solder fouling the hole (use a candle or accetalyne, solder tends not to stick to carbon). Then machine your tool around the hole.
 
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#23
What type steel did you use , if it were mine I'd try to use a type that can be hardened. A case hardened steel would be tuff yet giving ,, hard on the outside . Just my thought on a very nice job of machining , my luck after I made it it would bend like mushy spaghetti . Really is a great job you made a tool and saved tons of money . I'd bet some fellow locksmiths would be willing to buy some . If I were in that field I would .
 

SidebarSam

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#24
Hi there is another thread that was just started recently dealing with the same issue that may help a bit.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/drilling-boring-a-deep-hole.68379/

They do make Aircraft drill bits that are 6" long, but the flutes are only about 1" long for 1/16" so it would be a lot of pecking.

David
You should take a look at gun drills and gun drilling. They are made for drilling holes with very high L/D ratios. Otherwise, you will need to drill past the flutes and clear them often with a regular twist drill. One problem with regular twist drills is that they don't tend to drill stright on very deep holes, so if that is a requirement, then the gun drills are the way to go. That not drilling quite straight may be a problem with going from both ends, they may not meet as well as you need in the middle. It's quite a problem you have. If not a lot of strenght is required, could you mill a half round in two flat pieces with a ball end mill and silver or soft solder them together, forming a hole in the process? You could smoke the hole halfs before soldering to prevent the silver solder fouling the hole (use a candle or accetalyne, solder tends not to stick to carbon). Then machine your tool around the hole.
Thanks for all the replies guys. I read through the article and did some research on gun drills. I still need to do more research into gun drilling but so far that seems like the best option, though it appears the setup may be expensive. It looks like the setup might cost around $1500 to get started unless there are cheaper options for the spray mist kit and other accessories. I still need to look around more but the smallest diameter gun drill bit I found was 1mm. If I want to build tools for many of the modern high security disc-detainer locks I will need to drill holes that small or possibley smaller.

As for now I did drill the 1.5mm hole through just the front portion of the tool. I was able to get about 1/4" past the flutes as well. I ordered some longer aircraft drill bits but they probably won't arrive for a week or more. I may try drilling the back half of the tool tonight with maybe a 1.7mm drill bit in case the holes don't lineup perfectly and to get the extra length I need. While I wait for the longer drill bits I may start building a second tool.

What type steel did you use , if it were mine I'd try to use a type that can be hardened. A case hardened steel would be tuff yet giving ,, hard on the outside . Just my thought on a very nice job of machining , my luck after I made it it would bend like mushy spaghetti . Really is a great job you made a tool and saved tons of money . I'd bet some fellow locksmiths would be willing to buy some . If I were in that field I would .

I have been using 1144 steel for this tool and the Abloy Classic tool as well. Honestly I know nothing about types of steel/heat treating, that is something I need to do more research on as well. When I'm picking the lock I haven't encountered any issues with bending or breaking yet, the tool even rolled off my desk and stayed perfectly straight. I have gotten a few inquires regarding purchase of the first tool already, eventually I'll likely sell a few to make back some of the cost of tooling. There are very limited suppliers for these sort of tools, and many are not available to the general public.

Another lock tool maker mentioned that he heat treats his tools and that is something I am very interested in. I am willing to build a small forge and get a pyrometer to accurately reach temps but don't really know what steel to use or where to start. You can see from the pictures how thin everything needs to be, and to gain any amount of strength would be a huge bonus.



Here are some pictures showing some of things I've done since my last post..

Pick portion of the tool turned down to about 2.8mm. The hole I drilled is about 1/4" short of reaching the end of the 2.8mm diameter shaft.



I was nervous to machine this part so I did it by hand. The thickness of the picking tip need to be less than .019". I placed the tip in between two .018" feeler gauge and filed it down to size on top of a parallel. (In hindsight I should have held the piece in the drill chuck of the mill so that it could be held perfectly straight.) I may need to make this part thinner, the thinner the tip the easier it is to move in between the discs of the lock while picking.



This is what I have now. Everything is pretty much done, just need to drill the back half of the pick portion, cut to size, and make handles.


I think eventually I will need to get a dividing head to make perfectly accurate depth/space markings on the handles. In this lock there are 7 depths in 15 degree increments. The least expensive dividing head I've found is about $280. I think it would fit on the mini mill but I'm still hesitant on the purchase.
 

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#25
I wanted to post an update on the DiskLock tool and ask a question regarding heat treating.

About a month ago now I finished the first tool for the DiskLock that was able to open the lock. There were some things about that I wanted to change so I ended up machining a second tool. Of the three tools I've made I'm really happy with how this most recent one turned out.

Abloy DiskLock Tools



Closeups of the second tool





Diameter of the tension shaft is 1.8mm. The first tool I made the diameter was 1.3mm. The added thickness allows for more torque to be applied along with preventing the set screw from slipping.




The handles of the tool now slide into each other. It was my intention to add depth/space markings but I had trouble fitting my rotary table to the mill. Last week I ordered the 4" Sherline Rotary table with 4 jaw chuck which should better fit the mini mill.


This was my very first time trying a knurling tool on the lathe. The knurls are far from perfect but I like how they make the finished tool look and give the handle much more grip



Abloy DiskLock Picked!


Now I know this is not technically machining but I figured you guys would still know a lot more about then me. I am trying to figure out what type of steels would work best for heat treating in these sort of lock picking tools. As you can see from my previous posts the tools need to be very thin, in some cases as thin as .040" in diameter. The more torque that can be applied to these thin diameters the better and easier it is to pick the lock. I think the most important qualities in steel that I'm looking for are strength and machineability.

Every time I search for info regarding heat treating I am led to websites that are about knife making. I'm not sure if the same types of steel that make a good knife would make a good lock picking tool. So far everything I've used for these tools has been 1144 cold drawn stress proof rod. I am willing to build a small forge and purchase a pyrometer but I don't know what types of steel I should try. The diameters and lengths of steel I would be purchasing are very small so cost really isn't an issue.

Does anybody have any recommendations of types of steel I could try heat treating?




Thanks,
Sam
 

Eddyde

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#26
No worries, hardening metal is totally a machinist related question. I would try O1 Drill rod, it is readily available and heat treatable. You must first oil quench the heated steel then temper it to the desired hardness.
 

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#27
My bad I generated a duplicate post :(
 

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#28
I agree that O1 is a good first choice to try. It is more forgiving of home heat treating variations.
One thing that happens during heat treating especially during the quench is distortion. Your nice straight rods may end up bowed.
If they cannot be straightened with a little gentle persuasion after the fact, you will need to choose a steel that uses a less drastic quench.
That means Air hardening steels. A6 is one such animal.
The temperature and time requirements to properly heat treat these steels is way beyond the heat it red with a torch and swish it around in a bucket of oil. If you have to go here you would be time and money ahead to let a heat treating shop do it for you.
 

David S

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#29
Sam for some of your straight pins with a head, I wonder if a straight ejector pin would work. They have heads that can be machined and long straight tough shafts. They come in a wider range of configurations. They are used in the construction of plastic injection moulds.

David
 

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#30
This topic is of interest to me as I'm also a locksmith.

I started my locksmith apprenticeship with Chubb in Wellington NZ and then came to Vancouver and worked for them for another 5 years before starting my own business.
I am very familiar with the old Chubb safe locks and find very few locksmiths in North America exposed to these types of locks.

I'll be building a few specialized tools for the locksmith side of our business as well, so this is great to see what you are doing.

Cheers,

David.
 
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