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Monarch 10EE - what to do?

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Cal Haines

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#31
The stamped lettering on the bed are "INSPECTED NHE Lot No. 12653". Looks like it's a 1941 model. ...
Yes, that's your serial number. It's probably very late 1941 or early to mid 1942. Monarch assigned serial numbers when the machine was ordered. Sometimes orders would get placed on hold, for various reasons, so two machines that were build sequentially might have a big difference in serial number. The only way to know when it was actually built (given that the build tag is missing) is to contact Monarch. If you're nice to Terrie, she might tell you without having to spend money buying the documentation package.

Why don't you first see what you've got, how well it works and how it suits your needs. Unless you're actually looking for a machine tool reconditioning project, don't rush into "upgrading" it. Post some photos of your spindle motor and drive controls so that I can see what you have to work with.
 

Phayb

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#33
Yes, that's your serial number. It's probably very late 1941 or early to mid 1942. Monarch assigned serial numbers when the machine was ordered. Sometimes orders would get placed on hold, for various reasons, so two machines that were build sequentially might have a big difference in serial number. The only way to know when it was actually built (given that the build tag is missing) is to contact Monarch. If you're nice to Terrie, she might tell you without having to spend money buying the documentation package.

Why don't you first see what you've got, how well it works and how it suits your needs. Unless you're actually looking for a machine tool reconditioning project, don't rush into "upgrading" it. Post some photos of your spindle motor and drive controls so that I can see what you have to work with.
Cal...the entire drive system was discarded at some point at least two owners previous. I'm basically starting from ground zero on the electrical drive end of things...which is fine. I am leaning more towards the 7.5 hp motor and drive system as I think it'll end up being the most time and cost effective approach. The old MG drive is what was originally inside the lathe and it intrigues me (from the technical side of things)...but as I said, all of it is gutted out. The only thing left are the old conduits with wires still inside, the main switch box, the drum switch and contractors behind the headstock.
 

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Phayb

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#35
By the way...what's the diameter of the spindle pulley supposed to be? What's on the machine is 7.3" which I think is too large.
 

Karl_T

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#36
There are all different pulley set ups on the WWII era machines. Must have been partly due to war time shortages.

my early 1941 machine has six inch toothed flat belts on both the motor and the spindle. But this is not common.
 

Cal Haines

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#37
Phayb,

You have a motor that's belted up to the spindle. Assuming that there's a way to power the motor, why not use it for a while and see how it works for you? If you do a lot of threading or don't need high spindle RPMs, a DC motor is going to be much better than an AC motor without the backgear unit. I don't know very many people running VFDs without backgear units that are happy with them.

I need to see some better photos of the motor and it's control box (if any). Take a photo of the data plate on the motor. BTW, that's not the original motor.

The pulley on the spindle isn't oversized. It looks about right for a machine with a 2500 RPM tach an may be original to the machine. 10EEs were available with 2500, 3500 or 4000 RPM spindles. The V-belt drives used two, matched V-belts, apparently a single belt wasn't sufficient.
 

Phayb

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#39
Phayb,

You have a motor that's belted up to the spindle. Assuming that there's a way to power the motor, why not use it for a while and see how it works for you? If you do a lot of threading or don't need high spindle RPMs, a DC motor is going to be much better than an AC motor without the backgear unit. I don't know very many people running VFDs without backgear units that are happy with them.

I need to see some better photos of the motor and it's control box (if any). Take a photo of the data plate on the motor. BTW, that's not the original motor.

The pulley on the spindle isn't oversized. It looks about right for a machine with a 2500 RPM tach an may be original to the machine. 10EEs were available with 2500, 3500 or 4000 RPM spindles. The V-belt drives used two, matched V-belts, apparently a single belt wasn't sufficient.
Cal...thanks for your insight thus far...most helpful. Below is a photo of the 'franken-motor' that has been installed. It doesn't look like any of the motors I have seen for these lathes. You can see the battery disconnect. In addition, I took a photo of the tachometer showing this baby is a 4000 RPM spindle. I don't want to run the lathe 'as is'...it's not what I want to do. It's coming apart right down to the wood and being re-assembled as nicely as I can.

If it is more cost effective to buy the gearbox and DC motor from the ebay seller (or another) and then buy a DC drive set-up, then I'll consider it. People have been writing on the forums about 7.5 hp AC motors and VFDs without the gearbox...but I just went onto the Monarch site and they use 7.5 hp motors WITH 5:1 gearboxes. So I'm a bit confused...

I've never used a Monarach. I've used the small Southbends and the lathes at work (Western, Colchester and Microweily). So I'm still wondering what the best option will be. For sure I know that input power is 220V single phase on a 60A circuit...so whatever I choose will need to work off of that.
 

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Cadillac STS

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#41
Still could be valuable to make contact. Says best offer so offer a lower amount considering shipping. Also contact is worth it because of networking. Maybe this guy knows people closer with same machines or someone else with parts can ask about that when you contact him.
 

Cal Haines

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#42
Definitely not the original motor. Maybe it came out of a forklift or something like that? Without being able to see the data plate on the motor, it's impossible to tell what your options are for an electronic DC drive. As mentioned before, DC controllers for a 3HP-ish DC motor start at around $160; you'll spend way more than that on an AC motor and VFD.

Given what you've got, a VFD may be your only option. If you go that way, get the biggest motor that will physically fit without carving up the base. Used 3-phase motors go for $10 per HP down here. Ideally you want an "inverter duty" motor, which has insulation that can take the switching transients that a VFD puts out. If you get a non-inverter duty motor, you should install an AC line reactor between the VFD and the motor. I would keep the stepped pulley setup and see how it works for you, since it will give you two speed ranges to choose from. In general, a 10HP-ish VFD that runs from single-phase power is fairly pricey. A 10HP, 3-phase-input VFD from factorymation is about $550; I don't know if they even carry single-phase VFDs that big. Some 3-phase VFDs will run from single-phase, but it's not ideal. The are some Chinese VFDs on eBay, starting at about $220, if you're feeling lucky.

220V, 60A is plenty of power.
 

pacifica

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#43
When you go above 3hp( motors and vfd's) price goes up fast, extra cost to ship .Instead of $1k for a package you are talking 2 to 3 times more.

Sensorless vector vfd will give you torque that you need at low speeds. Also costs more. No magic bullet on this issue.
 

Phayb

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#44
I finally strung a few hours together to start dismantling the machine. I've located a gearbox so the electric motor choice becomes easier for me (I'll follow the same basic path as fellow forum member Deek). Now it's just a matter of systematically going through each sub-system one at a time. I'll start from the base and bed and work my way up from there. I have a plan on how to re-create the missing covers (fiberglass) so that should be pretty straighrtforward to do...unless some originals happen to cross my path. Let the games begin! Woo hoo!
 

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Richard King 2

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#45
I see your in Canada ...a friend of mine Shane Carr in Port Coquitlam BC who has rebuilt several. He has 2 way grinders and can scrape. (a student of mine)You can also email him for help if you need it.
http://www.carrsmachining.com/about.php

I will be teaching a class in Ohio in August where I can show you ... also possibly one in middle of July in Oklahoma. Shane attended the class at Bourn & Koch in Rockford IL. in 2016. Pictures of Shane in Checkered shirt.
 

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Dabbler

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#46
Phab, first congrats on your purchase!

--regarding lathes being too low, most are way too low even for us 5' 10" people. Most of my machinist friends have made risers out of steel tubing/plate to bring the late to a height where 'stooping' is unnecessary. Because of my back, I can't use the machine very long if I have to bend over it.

I'm looking forward to seeing some pictures of this restoration project!!
 

Silverbullet

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#47
Dc motor power is extremely powerfull , with the right controls I doubt you would ever need an a.c. three phase motor. There easily reversed and a potentiometer that was in the lathe probably would work your speed changes . Plus the pulley change there already is adding more speed or torque. Just my observations , many large machines run dc powered motors , our giant radial drill press used I think 24 volt system. There are pluses to using dc power over a.c.. And I love the 10EE there just perfect machines.
 
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