[How do I?] Motor- Drum Switch Wiring on this old 2 HP 220 volt 1 Phase motor

4

4GSR

Forum Guest
Register Today
I have a question about Motor- Drum Switch Wiring on this old 2 HP 220 volt 1 Phase motor.
It is an old Lima motor I would say at least a early 1950's motor possibly. This was pulled from my 15” Sheldon lathe when I bought it. I did power up the motor when I first got the lathe. Seem to run fine. Started with no problems. The motor was pulled and forgotten about until the other day. The guy I sold my 13” lathe to wants a 1 phase motor to replace the 3 phase motor and static converter. Won't get into details for the change out of the motor. I told him I had this 1 phase motor I would give him if he wanted it.

So I drug it up from the back porch, cleaned it off a little and proceeded to remove the makeshift cover to get to the wires to rewire it for his needs. This is the hornets nest I am into. Sorry for the blurred pictures.
20180218_185618.jpg20180218_185646.jpg20180218_185701.jpg
The wires coming from the original forward/ reverse magnetic starter were just four and were marked 1, 2, 3, and 4. I only found one of the original wire markers out of all of the ones coming out of the motor.
Wires 1 and 2 have continuity, and wires 3 and 4 do not. So I assume 1 and 2 is the running winding and 3 and 4 have to do with the starting winding.
The two capacitors do not make any sense either. They are 450 mfd apiece. Both are electrolytic type and have separate wires going into the motor housing. Why would have that much mfd's for start up on a 2 HP motor! 5 HP maybe, 7-1/2 HP probably so. There is no oilfield run capacitors on the motor.
The motor nameplate has no meaning with what I see here to any of the wires that were currently used to run the motor.

20180219_091005.jpg20180219_091023.jpg

I have not made any attempts to take the motor apart to see how it ticks.
My question is, How do you reverse this motor with only four wires?
It was apparently being done before I took it out of service. I left the wires intact with the motor, only cut them at the motor stating contactor, knowing someone would like to know how to hook it up.

My next problem is hooking this up to this drum switch I bought recently. A Chinese built switch that is supposedly to be good for 60 amps. There's no way to cram no. 6 wire in the case for 60 amp service! I'll be lucky to get 14 and 12 ga. wire in this case!

20180220_204913.jpg20180220_204944.jpg20180220_204958.jpg


HELP!!!
 
Hi Ken,
i agree, the 450Uf caps are a bit overkill for a 2 hp, but it would kick the motor back up to speed quickly under a load.
at a guess, the second capacitor may have been used to have instant starting in the reverse direction without having to have the rotor make a complete stop, before reversing direction- only a guess

some (yellow 10-12ga) crimp on fork end terminals would make the job of putting large wire in the small switch clamps better

the 4 wires are all that should be necessary to reverse the motors direction
by the diagram on the motor (3 and 2) and (7 and 6) are jumped together for 230v operation
in forward operation, (1 and 5) gets one leg of 115v, and the (4 and 8) gets the other leg of 115v, completing the 230v circuit
in reverse operation, (1 and 8) gets one leg of 115v, and the (4 and 5) gets one leg of 115V, completing the 230v circuit
you are simply swapping the bias of the 5 and 8 wires and adding capacitance in the desired bias in my observation

something that does make me a little nervous is that there is no symbols on the diagram for capacitors.
but if the motor ran, leave them in where they are.

i hope my response doesn't raise more questions than it answered :)
 
Last edited:
How many wires total coming out of the motor Ken?
Looks like there may actually be 4 windings brought out
Mark
 
............
the 4 wires are all that should be necessary to reverse the motors direction
by the diagram on the motor (3 and 2) and (7 and 6) are jumped together for 230v operation
in forward operation, (1 and 5) gets one leg of 115v, and the (4 and 8) gets the other leg of 115v, completing the 230v circuit
in reverse operation, (1 and 8) gets one leg of 115v, and the (4 and 5) gets one leg of 115V, completing the 230v circuit
you are simply swapping the bias of the 5 and 8 wires and adding capacitance in the desired bias in my observation

something that does make me a little nervous is that there is no symbols on the diagram for capacitors.
but if the motor ran, leave them in where they are.

i hope my response doesn't raise more questions than it answered :)

Mike, the problem is wires 6, 7, and 8 are not marked. Reversing is being done thru the four wires 1, 2, 3, and 4 as marked, as found.
These four wires went directly to a forward-reversing AB size 0 starter. There is no way to change voltage or direction according to the nameplate on the motor.
 
How many wires total coming out of the motor Ken?
Looks like there may actually be 4 windings brought out
Mark
There are ten wires coming out of the motor. Two are tied together, four goes out to the two capacitors, last four go to the controller.
Without tearing into the motor itself, it looks like it may have been rewired or serviced. There is a little of the red insulation paint over spray coming out of the pecker head. Not something I've seen on older motors like this. Some of the wires coming out of the motor look somewhat newer, too. Still old though.
 
Mike, the problem is wires 6, 7, and 8 are not marked. Reversing is being done thru the four wires 1, 2, 3, and 4 as marked, as found.
These four wires went directly to a forward-reversing AB size 0 starter. There is no way to change voltage or direction according to the nameplate on the motor.
Hi Ken,
on the motor plate, there are 2 sets of diagrams, to change voltage or direction
the upper set of diagrams are for 230v operation- the left hand side upper diagram shows the forward operation for 230v
the upper left hand side of the diagram shows the connections for 230v in reverse operation
on the lower half of the nameplate, on the left side lower is the connection for 115v operation in forward
on the lower right half of the nameplate is the connections for 115v connection in reverse.

we'll need to identify the leads one by one, an ohm meter will be needed
 
I'm wondering if perhaps this is a large permanent split-cap style motor with no centrifugal switch
I think I figured out the winding arrangement; there's 4:
A) 1,2
B) 3,4
C) 5,6
D) 7,8
So there's always either 2 pairs in parallel (115v) or 2 pairs in series (230v) = 2 wires + 2 more brought out if you want to swap one pair to reverse.
There should be continuity between 2 pairs of the 4 brought out. If not (as you are seeing) something got disconnected inside I think. You may have to open it up.
Looks like the cap connections are not shown on the nameplate
 
Guys, I fully understand the wiring diagrams on the motor. That's not the problem.

I know the motor was set up for 220 volt 1 phase. I ran the motor before it was pulled. The motor ran in both forward and reverse.

The problem is, how in the heck do you get it to reverse with only four wires going to the contactor? And without changing the leads at the motor.

I'll take some more pictures of the wiring and post.
 
if your reversing contactor is like other reversing contactors i have seen and used,
the forward contacts are made while the reverse contacts are broken, and when called to do so the forward contacts drop out and the reverse contacts are made
in 3 phase reversing contactors,
there are 2 contactors that are siamesed together.
the power is supplied to one contactor, then from the first contactor routed to the second contactor- but they swap 2 input wires when making the line connection for the second contactor. this reverses direction in a 3 phase motor control system
a single phase reversing contactor could be used to reverse the polarity or both power legs, if used in the same manner as the 3 phase counterpart.

the drum switch is doing the very same thing a reversing contactor does, just in a different manner.
one is manually actuated, one is magnetically operated
 
Agree with Mike, you need double pole, double throw action
 
Back
Top