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Ray C

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Didn't do much... Just threaded the end of the drawbar and did a test fit. It fits.

Collet Drawbar.JPGItWorks.JPG

Maybe more tomorrow...

Ray

Collet Drawbar.JPG ItWorks.JPG
 

Ray C

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All the excitement of a new roof and the grand opening of the grinding and metrology section of the shop has died down so, here's a simple use of a granite slab.

It's important for the MT-blocks to have concentric taper holes otherwise, drill bits etc would be sticking-out an an angle. In the photo, a piece of drill rod was put inside a collet and a telescoping height gauge is used to check how straight it is. It was checked sitting on its bottom and on its side. Somehow I got lucky and all of them so far are checking out within my ability to measure them. The one shown has not been heat treated yet and the base is intentionally 3 thou oversized. The absolute height of the rod is checked this same way by measuring the distance between the top of the plate and bottom of the rod. Adjustments in measurement are accounted for by subtracting the height of the machinist block and 1/2 the diameter of the drill rod. It will be re-checked and surfaced ground after heat treating.

Grinding and Metrology Station.JPG

We'll resume and work on the base very soon now that the house repairs are (kinda over) over... I'm also in the process of remodeling the kitchen and bathrooms. -Gotta keep SHMBO happy...


Ray

Grinding and Metrology Station.JPG
 

Ray C

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We're rolling on this again... I know, it's been a while but, these are my "leisure" projects -and it's been too hot/uncomfortable lately...

Here we're surfacing the plates to be used for the base. I'm not going to recycle the old one as I wish to keep it intact.

The mill is trammed nicely and is giving almost a blanchard grind look. There are several of these to do and the new vise ( http://www.machinetoolonline.com/VisesHighPrecision.html ) is doing great! I've checked the width of each at 1" from from the corners and total variation is staying well within 1 thou. -Would not have been possible with my old vise -no way, no way at all!

That's a 3", 5 insert cutter spinning about 800 RPM. First DoC was just 5 thou to take the scale off. Next evened it out 10 thou then, I took a skim pass not changing the DoC. No coolant today -not needed for baby cuts like this and plate was easy to handle meaning temperatures were probably around 110 degrees.

More later... I'll be working on this all day to catch-up...

(Plate looks really blue because we have a beautiful blue sky today. The grind marks in the plate are nowhere near as ugly as they look on camera).


Plate 1.JPGPlate 2.JPG

Ray

Plate 1.JPG Plate 2.JPG
 
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But I know what it is already. I can name that tune in 2 notes.

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Ray C

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Here's a couple more notes to the song... Things got slowed down as I picked-up another walk-in welding job. The last guy I did work for sent two more guys my way. Seems it's feast or famine... I was slow for 2 week and this week brought in 500. It's going to be busy next week. This new fellow needs some big heavy duty tables with built-in roller pinch bars. I need to make the bars too.

OK, here's the pieces of the top-side of the assembly.

Pieces.JPG

The two plates each need a couple grooves cut (as marked) and a precisely fitting key will be inserted. The plates will fit face-to-face and the keys will keep them aligned. The keys will be hardened material and highly polished and will be fixed in just one of the plates. This will be just like a normal tailstock where the push/pull screws adjust for a dead-center or taper position. On the lower plate, an elongated hole is cut to allow a small but fair amount of side-to-side positioning. BTW: the mill surfacing was very even. The plate on the right was surface ground and it cleaned-up with two passes of 1/2 thou downfeed and a 0.0002 final pass. The mill marks came off very uniformly across the piece. This means the mill spindle is in good shape and the face cutter was not getting cocked one way or the other.

Marked Plate 1.JPGMarked Plate 2.JPG


Here's a basic view. The shaft will be trimmed and threaded and I'll make a custom nut and that's what clamps the rotating disk once the proper tool holder is selected.

Setup.JPG

Still lot's of work to do... The base plate is cut and I wanted to cut the v-groove today but, I was busy earning some money. Once the weather cools off, some of these parts will need some heat treating and I've got a couple more taper blocks to cook too.

-Until next time...

Ray

Pieces.JPG Marked Plate 1.JPG Marked Plate 2.JPG Setup.JPG
 

Ray C

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Thank you. You're welcome.

Let me know if there are other details you'd prefer to see in these posts.


Ray

Nice work, and thanks for the explanations.

Good to hear you are staying busy.
 

Ray C

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A couple more action shots. Didn't get much done today and #3 son's car had a tire problem that needed attention...

It was time to cut the slots so, the first step is to align the piece by adjusting the vise. Using a DI, the part is run back/forth horizontally until the DI is flatline.

Align.JPG

The cuts went well. I'm slowly switching over to all carbide endmills and took 1/10" deep cuts and it was like a hot knife through butter and it's totally natural feeling to crank the infeed pretty fast. Each plate needs to have the basic slots aligned perfectly so, the center of the hole in each plate was determined using the DRO then each slot was cut at a chosen offest from that center position. I'm using Kool mist and after cutting a 0.200" deep cut (3/8" wide) the workpiece and bit were positively cool to the touch.

Slot.JPG

...And in case you didn't follow the last verbal description of the slots and keys, here's a picture (minus the keys inside the slots). One plate will be able to slide across the other and the keys will hold things aligned.

Plates.JPG

Ray

Align.JPG Plates.JPG Slot.JPG
 

Ray C

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Here's a little chunk of progress -working on the bed plate.

I made a pair of 45[SUP]o[/SUP] angle vise jaws to hold the bed plate to cut the V-groove. Some rough pics of those are shown in the ongoing Project of the Day thread. The jaws did a great job of holding the piece.

Today was one of those "special" days and it took about 20 minutes to get my head wrapped around the dimensions of the cut and where to start making it, another 10 minutes to set it up and 10 more to cut the grove. It worked out well and is fitting nicely but, it will take a little tweaking. Right now, the V-notch is cut just a tiny bit undersized -fully expecting it may need to be tweaked and also cut deep enough for it to sit flat across the ways. I don't believe I've ever made a cut like this and am happy with it so far. The overall dimensions of the piece and were it sits in relation to the V-groove and flat-way came out satisfactorily.


Vgroove1.JPGVgroove3.JPG

The V-Grove itself came-out very well and the 90[SUP]o[/SUP] is very perpendicular to the surface but, it seems the corresponding V-notch is at a slightly different angle. I may be wrong about this and need to observe more closely because it could be that the depth is not quite deep enough and the other, flat side of the bed is preventing it from sitting squarely. -We shall see and fix as needed.

Vgroove2.JPGVgroove4.JPG

OK, break time. -Need caffeinated beverage (coffee!) a quick rest -and back out to the shop. See y'a later.


Ray

Vgroove1.JPG Vgroove2.JPG Vgroove3.JPG Vgroove4.JPG
 

Ray C

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In the shop most of the day... First I had to make tools so I could make more tools. Was spending a lot of time with the surface grinder. -Man, I'm going to leave a dirty ring around the bathtub tonight!

Well then... The bed plate is coming along nicely. The angle of the V-groove on the lathe is dead-on 90[SUP]o[/SUP] (so that wasn't the problem) and so was the groove in the plate. The problem was that A) the groove I made was rotated ever so slightly -probably about 1 or 1.5[SUP]o[/SUP]. Mills aren't good candidates for ultra precision work so I decided the surface grinder was the ticket. I ground a 45[SUP]o[/SUP] angle on a wheel, set things up and cleaned-up one side of the groove. A test fit looks real good. The other side will have to wait until tomorrow. Here's shot of the grind setup in the SG and a pretty good look at the plate. Yes, I need to make a slot at the root of the V. -Tomorrow.


Vgroove5.JPG


Ray

Vgroove5.JPG
 

Ray C

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After hitting the other side of the grove with the surface grinder, now I'm fitting the V-groove. Before doing anything, I ran a file over the ground surfaces to get rid of some chatter marks. The wheel I "sacrificed" to put a 45[SUP]o[/SUP] angle on is an extremely hard wheel -and hard wheels chatter like crazy. The initial fit was quite good with no wiggle but needed a good bit of tweaking. I checked flatness of the bed plate with a DI mounted on the crossfeed and then I discovered the v-groove had to be cut a little deeper -back to the SG... With all said and done and a little tweaking it's at about 1 thou from side to side. To fix that, I'll need to take a tiny bit off the flat side of the of the bed plate.

Right now, I'm bluing the all the V's and checking for rub spots. Here you can see some as well as the profile with a top-slot cut in at the root. Later on, I'll put an oil cap on the top side.

Now I know I'm dangerously in "scraping territory" here and I have no clue other than watching Rich's DVD but, this is coming along well. I'm sure you pro guys would just as soon get a rope and hang me but, I took a HSS lathe bit, ground it to serve my needs and pounded a wooden block on the end for a handle. It works-out pretty well. I can go right to those high spots and peel the tops of e'm right off. After that, I hit it with a file, slather with more bluing and try again.

It's a slow process and has taken me 2 hours so far (and about 20 test fits) but, I'd say it's probably 80% of the way there. At some point, I'll have to put some feather-scraping in there for oil... -I'll figure that out when I get there.

Oh, BTW, you can see that Sash thinks this is a very, very boring process. -Poor girl, she hates when I sit for 2 hours and don't give her attention...

Ray


Fitting1.JPGFitting2.JPGFitting3.JPG

Fitting1.JPG Fitting2.JPG Fitting3.JPG
 

Richard King

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Ray,

Just a thought as I haven't read the entire article, but I woke up thinking if you have a straight-edge you need to set it in the center of the V way / flat way and then pull it up about 1/8" to a 1/4" so it isn't resting in the bottom and pull toward you on with your left hand and see where it pivots or your checking the airy points then leaving the straight edge in the original position off the bottom pull it with your right hand, moving it about 1/2" total movement.

Many times on an older machine grinds the ends low because as the table travels off the bed it sags lifting the other end slightly or the end of the table don't see wear and as it rides onto the unused area it lifts the end. It all depends on the type and brand of the surface grinder. This straight-edge test is important because if it is high in the middle when the part changes direction it will rock. When working on a V / flat way system you cant check the airy points or I have called them hinge points of the ways during the process as the V captures the other V and you can't hinge the part. When holding your straight edge hold it about 30% from the ends and also the hinge or airy points should be at 30%.
________x_______________x_______ something like that. If the V is high in the middle and blues up it could be high in the middle and be rocking like a rocking chair when you push it one direction it dips into the end and blues and the other end the same thing happens. Just last weekend I saw a newer Bridgeport mill saddle apart..I know it is a flat and dovetail way system, but Bridgeport had relieved the center 40% low approx. .030" .

If I was doing the scraping I would scrape the short way that is usually stationary low when finished approx .001" on a grinder. Keep the long side which usually moves (some machines have longer beds, so the shorter moving part we lower) If this is hard to read and under stand call me 651 338 8141. Rich.
I will be leaving soon as I have to finish a rebuild I have been working on an hours drive from home.
short way -----------____________--------------

Seeing your's is a bottom tail-stock slide you will want to scrape it so the middle 40% is low and no blue can be seen when your done.
The front or chuck side of the slide should also be thicker then the back tail-stock end on a machine that size .0002 to .0005. Because as it wears it wears better or straighter as dirt sets in front of it and you have sag when you support a long shaft.
In most of the new machines built today the include inspection sheets from the factory showing these tests and what the spec was when finished. The allowed tolerance. If not let me know and I will send you a set.

One more thing mill in some oil grooves in the bottom, I prefer the zig zag type to cover the whole way being sure not to go off the in and outside edge. You need more the a hole especially on a hardened bed. On a flat surface and just a hole the oil can't drain.

Your doing an excellent job. be sure to measure the depth of your scrape marks, the should average .0002" and the 1/2 moon should be .002" deep. Happy Scraping. Rich
 
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Ray C

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Hi Rich...

I appreciate all the info and guidance here...

I finished the groove yesterday and it only needs oil scraping now. All total, there's probably 10 hours of labor spread out over 3 days. The basic milled and ground groove were very close. I spent a lot of time on setup. Also, my 100 year old SG does not have fall-off (fortunately). If I knew what the heck I was doing, it would have gone faster. I managed to get what I must consider 100% contact on both sides. I made a fixture to hold a 1/2" x 6" parallel block at the correct angle to do the checking. I would blue the groove, run the parallel, find the high spots then peel them off with a sharpened HSS lathe bit with a flat edge.


It was like playing whack-a-mole. I'd peel off a high spot and a new one would appear... Gradually, there were no more high spots -just an evenly rubbed surface. Over time, I gradually came to realize you can't "*****-foot" around with this. When you see a high spot, peel it off decisively and find the next! After every few adjustments, I'd check on the actual lathe bed to make sure I wasn't gradually changing the angles. Also, on the flat-contact side of the plate, I milled it a little low and shimmed it for perfect flatness as measured by running a DI across the top plate, mounted from the crossfeed. I was wondering how I'd handle that situation when I crossed that bridge so, I will mill it much deeper now (1/4"?) and make a custom pad/shim that will be screwed to the base. That will be a snap. Anyhow, the purpose of that milling was to ensure the relative angle of the V didn't change wrt the fixed V in the bed. -Hope that made sense...

I plan to make some felt keepers and install them on the front and back of both sides of the contact points to keep swarf out of there.

Here's a couple pics. It was freshly blued and run back forth on the lathe several times. No high spots, no rub areas. Just a smooth set of fine rub lines all the way across on both sides.... you can see exactly where the bluing is has made contact. Also the transfer onto the ways is very even. You might be able to see what looks one scratch on the right side of the groove. That is from the lip of the bluing applicator bottle. It rubs when you brush the other side. On the left side the contact area is the innermost 2/3 of the groove as, the corresponding way surface on that left side is "shorter" (i.e. less surface contact) than the other side which has full-profile contact. For some reason, they ground the ways that way.

Ray



Groove 8.JPGGroove 9.JPG

Groove 8.JPG Groove 9.JPG
 

Ray C

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Oh, one other thing... In addition to a HSS lathe bit, I used a 1/2" wide flat file that is smooth on the edges. It's only about 1/32" thick which is thin enough that when you lay it flat, you can use your thumbs to direct the force right on a high spot. First I would scrape it with the HSS then, I'd go over it lightly with the file just until it started to touch the blued area around it. That way, you're only taking off the high spot and smoothing it down w/o making low spots lower.

This didn't mess-up my hands as much as I though. I just had a round of cortisone shots in the the knuckles not long ago and didn't want to undo that. I iced my hands afterward which always helps. The hands are fine after all this -Wheew! -Can't seem to get the blue out of the skin though... :).


Ray
 

Ray C

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A tiny bit more progress here. Things are going slow because I had a little procedure on my foot today and can only stand for a short while.

-As promised, I installed a shim about 1/4" thick and it's bolted in from the top side. This allows me to bring the shim down slowly until it's hitting flat. I milled the channel for it and made the shim and it was about 5 thou oversized -which is exactly what I was shooting for. The original mill marks were several thou deep and this was the first test fit after SG'ing the mill marks off the shim. It is very, very close to making perfect contact. I'd say it has slightly less than a thou to come off before it's dead flat. The "guestimate" is very consistent with the measurement from reading the top of the plate with a DI installed on the crossfeed.

I'd like to finish it tonight but, the foot is not cooperating. It will be better tomorrow (the foot) and the plate will be finished too!

Ray

PS: Someone in a different post asked what kinds of projects are appropriate for a surface grinder. I sure hope that guy is reading this... I gotta tell you, it is very gratifying to dial in 0.0001" on the SG and the micrometer shows exactly that amount after the pass is made. No other tool can do that kind of work...

Shimmed.JPG

Shimmed.JPG
 

Ray C

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A teeny, tiny bit of progress tonight. Just made the keys for the sliding plates, milled from a drop piece of 4140 then surface ground 5 thou oversize of the slot. It will be heat treated and surface ground a final time for perfect fit.

I had a good wheel on the SG but since it was a small piece I used it anyhow. Normally, I save my good wheels for important stuff not junk work like keys. Also, soft metal (un heat treated) doesn't grind very well and is very picky about what wheel you use. I dialed this in for 0.382 and it's end-to-end 0.3820. Surface grinders... you got gotta love e'm.


Ray

Key.JPG

Key.JPG
 

Ray C

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We're getting warmer...

Here's a rough-out test fit. It's sitting on parallel blocks to see if the theoretical calculations agree with reality and make sure everything clears the U-shaped opening in the carriage. Yep, I guessed everything pretty close. Right now, the riser pieces are being rough cut but it takes a while. 1" steel plate isn't exactly butter. Once they're cut they'll be milled/ground to proper height and fastened. It's all going together with bolts -you'll see when I'm done... This will still have some up/down height adjustment. The sliding plates were aligned with two square keys instead of a V for the purpose of being able to put a shim between the plates if ever necessary. A V notch won't allow that as once you shim the plates, the V's won't come into contact.

After this, it's just a few more things: A) Push/pull screws for sideways adjustment B) Thread the main clamping bolt and make a nut C) Make and install a drive gear and handle to drive it off the rack gear D) Make the bottom clamp plate.

After that, I'll make some smaller attachment pieces. I started with big ones as those present the most clearance problems.

Roughout 1.JPGRoughout2.JPG

Ray

Roughout 1.JPG Roughout2.JPG
 

Ray C

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... Hope this isn't getting on your nerves but, here's more eye-candy and some words along the way...

At the last minute, I decided to TIG the riser legs to the base plate. Noodled on that a bit wondering if the heat would warp all the hard work I put into that thing. Heck no... I had some tricks up my sleeve. I clamped several large pieces of aluminum as it sucks-up heat like a sponge. All the edges were beveled sharply about 1/8" so there was a nice v-groove to weld into. It was hit fast and hot. 120A, 1/16" tungsten with high arc force and 20% helium. That's effectively a 155 Amp weld. The bevels sucked up the rod so fast, I had a hard time keeping up with the filler. It was over so fast, the metal never knew what happened and it really didn't get all that hot. The welds were deep enough that I'll mill the outside weld caps off for better aesthetics.

Anyhow, the riser legs were cut intentionally a little high and you'll see why later. The bottom of the two top plates bolt on with four, 3/8" cap screws. It fits perfectly flat. I recheck the bed fit with bluing and there was no warping problem whatsoever.

Base.JPGBase 2.JPG

Preliminary checks with the DI are looking very good. From edge to center, it's about dead on. The parts are just set on there now and when things get bolted down, there might be runout but for now, it's in the ballpark for sure.

DI 1.JPGDI 2.JPGDI 3.JPG

And here's why the riser legs were made tall. Right were my finger is pointed, the bottom of the two top-plates will be channeled out until I get the right height. Right now, I'm just lining-up with a TS point. If if screw-up and take too much off, disappointment but no worries as I could put shims on the riser legs before bolting the plate down. For now, I need to think of a good way to line-up to dead center. I'm sure I'll think of something but, I'm kinda brain-fried for the day. If you feel like tossing-out some ideas, I'm OK with that...

Line up.JPG

Oh, BTW, that was 1-1/8" plate. Had it in my head it was 1". This thing is really heavy and it's starting to feel really nice when you slide it on the ways.

Until tomorrow...

Ray

EDIT: And yes, I know... I'm not really holding the DI at an ideal angle but in this case, I'm not looking for a real reading, I'm looking for relative motion over the travel.

Base 2.JPG Base.JPG DI 1.JPG DI 2.JPG DI 3.JPG Line up.JPG
 
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Will this turret index on each retraction or will you need to index it manually Ray?

"Billy G"
 

Ray C

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Are you kidding me? How much longer you want to see this thread go for? :LOL:

I got two other projects lined-up after this one...

-Seriously though, the thought of auto-index never entered my mind. I supposed there's plenty of space to rig something in there but, the plan was just to cut down on the number of times I'm switching stuff in/out of the tailstock. For starters, it would be nice to have a small drill chuck with a permanent center bit and one with a live center, another with a dead center etc... This one will index by loosening a top bolt, lifting an alignment pin, manual spin to the next station and put the alignment pin back in place. If you look at the holes in the plate, you'll see one hole thats off to the side of the others. That's for the alignment pin.

Ray



Will this turret index on each retraction or will you need to index it manually Ray?

"Billy G"
 

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You will still spend the time just modifying it to fit your lathe. I got the plans for the Grizzly Lathe ( same as my jet) 73 changes later I can use the prints. :lmao::lmao:

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Ray C

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It's alive!

... Didn't get much chance to work on it today. Just threaded the locking bolt and bored/threaded what will ultimately be the nut. It's all basically together and functions but there's a lot of little work to do now. I'll cut that long bolt down and will make a built-in tightening lever so I won't need to grab a wrench every time. Anyhow, the heights came-out just fine and centers perfectly...



Alive 1.JPGAlive 2.JPGBolt.JPG

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Alive 1.JPG Alive 2.JPG Bolt.JPG
 

eightball

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Ray, are you gonna make a crank and gear to run on your rack gear to move the turrett? Also if i had to err on the height id make it a tad high. Ive read somewhear that new lathes, the tailstock is a couple tenths high to allow for wear.
 

Ray C

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Yes, I'll put a gear in there and drive it off the rack. I was just out there checking things over. Just moments ago, I measured the rack tooth spacing and wrote the numbers down. So far, everything clears. The diameter of the plate and 60[SUP]o[/SUP] spacing was chosen to give clearance with the compound and compound knob. The overhang height of the taper blocks clears the top of the compound too. I'll have to move the light fixture that's on the carriage but, that was a given at the onset.

Also, yes, the height right now is two thou high and that's easily adjusted. I still need to put oil grooves and feather scraping on the slide plate. Right now, it's all small work like the gear, crank handle, a bunch of alignment pins etc... Still a couple days work ahead but this is a side project so I'm not knocking myself out. Also, the day-job has been keeping me busy lately... We'll get there!

Ray


Ray, are you gonna make a crank and gear to run on your rack gear to move the turrett? Also if i had to err on the height id make it a tad high. Ive read somewhear that new lathes, the tailstock is a couple tenths high to allow for wear.
 

eightball

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One other question, ive never ran a turrett lathe so i have no clue how they are attached to the ways. I would have to assume they would have roller bearings like alot of carriage's have. I would think just a hold down like a regular tailstock would have too much movement. I like this build so please dont mistake my curiosity as anything different.
 

Ray C

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Correct. The clamping plate underneath is pretty beefy and has provision for two rollers (or possibly four). The underside of the ways are well ground. I'd like to come-up with a two-part method of locking the clamping plate. One method locks it firmly and the other method will allow constrained rolling motion. I may need to reach my fingers in there to kick the rollers in/out of place as needed or, I could come-up with something fancier than that. It might be a "work in progress"...

Ray


One other question, ive never ran a turrett lathe so i have no clue how they are attached to the ways. I would have to assume they would have roller bearings like alot of carriage's have. I would think just a hold down like a regular tailstock would have too much movement. I like this build so please dont mistake my curiosity as anything different.
 

eightball

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Like i said in the previous post, i have never used a turrett lathe so i didnt have a clue. You make could do something similar to a carriage lock.
 

Ray C

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We can absolutely make this an interactive design project... I have never in my life not accepted help and ideas when they're made available.

I think eveyone knows what we're talking about... It's nothing more than a plate that presses against the bottom rails of the ways -and this locks the tailstock.

The mission: Come-up with a way to make it either slide freely, lock when needed or roll with minimal lift (for the purpose of drilling or driving the TS with the hand crank).

Go for it...


Ray
 
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