Need a Bit of Help Choosing a VFD

vocatexas

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I'm finally putting the finishing touches on my shop building. It's taken way longer than I ever planned, but it's all but finished. My nephew, who is a licensed electrician, is coming on July 3 to do the actual wiring connections. AC electric is black magic as far as I'm concerned. Anyhow, most of my 3-phase machines are going to be run off a rotary phase converter. I wanted to be able to run at least one larger lathe without having to fire a 40 hp motor up, and my 16 inch Southbend only has a 2 hp motor, so that's the one. This will also make it simpler to either power another machine with the VFD or to move the lathe if I so choose. We plan on wiring it to plug into a 240 volt outlet, not hard wiring it.

From what little I understand about VFDs, you don't over-size them as you would a RPC. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles; I just want to be able to turn on the VFD, turn on the lathe, and go. Input will be 240 volts single phase and I need 240 volt 3 phase out. Does anybody have a particular VFD they would suggest?
 
The thing about modern electronic drives is that they all start out the same way, by first making a high (ish) voltage DC supply from the incoming AC shop supply, and then the electronics artificially generates the voltages for the motor. All those that I have seen so far have available connections for 3-phase motors, but if in setup, you select a single phase motor type, they just use two of the three terminals. One becomes deactivated.

You should be OK on the 240V socket. AC electric is not magic, nor black art. The handy thing about 240V is that since the voltage is double the 120V, the currents are halved, and the heating losses in wires are quartered. VFD's are often 95%+ efficient. The inefficiency happens in motors, if of older traditional type, being run too slow.

An easy little walk-through is to start with the 2 HP. That would be when the motor is turning at the rated speed on the label. The horsepower unit has been well messed about with, but mechanically, is taken as 746 watts. So your 2HP means 2 x 746 = 1492 Watts. Loosely, think of it as about 1.5kW.

Knowing you have 240V, and Power = Volts x Amps, it's not too hard to figure that the current would be 6.21 Amps, but that is only true if everything was 100% efficient. Motors can be very efficient if turning fast enough, but expect it to want around 7 to 8 Amps from the socket when you are making it work hard.

I did mention that the VFD's rectify the AC mains to make a DC supply, known as a "bus". The VFD artificial 3-phase made from this may be a lower voltage version of 3-phase. If the 3-phase motor was originally wired in the higher voltage "star" configuration, it may need to be connected in the "delta" configuration. Your nephew electrician will be able to do this for you. As for information on exactly how, this site is stacked full of folk who know, end even more who did not know, but got to where they needed to be anyway, from the advice received.

You are right in that VFDs should be reasonably matched to the size of motor and load they have to deliver to. Things do get awkward if they are working on a small fraction of their designed load. Choose one where your load is about 80% of the capability.

A top tip is to exploit the gearing in your lathe when running slow, doing heavy load cuts. The torque from motors falls away as they slow down, and VFD electronics can run out of steam trying to deliver full torque from near a standstill in a traditional AC motor. It can be done with DC motors, and special AC motors of the sort in Tesla electric cars, but unlikely in a squirrel-cage AC induction motor from a year beginning with "19". If you use the gearing to have the motor turning as fast as possible, you will have enough speed control to have the chuck turn about as slow as you could need, with lots of torque.

I am in UK. The guys here will be able to guide you on USA available kit.
 
You do not need to oversize a VFD if it is designed for the operating conditions you will be using. The primary parameter to match in addition to input phase is that the VFD output under the particular load is matched your motor/application. In general a lathe would constitute a normal duty or heavy duty load (constant torque), so you look at the output amps of the VFD and it should exceed the motor full load amps and maybe a little head room. Many newer VFDs seem to have more severe deratings for load, input phase, carrier frequency, ambient temperature, etc. If you have a chuck that locks to the spindle I also would advise getting a VFD that supports an external braking resistor to aid in faster stopping. Some of the lower price VFD's do not support that. My recommendations on single phase input VFD's for a 2 Hp lathe motor would be:
Teco E510-202-H-U
Automation Direct Durapulse GS21-22P0
Hitachi WJ200-015SF

VFD's are designed to be directly wired to the motor and controlled via low level control inputs, they are not designed to be used as a 3 phase power source in their typical configuration. If you are looking to supply a whole shop with 3 phase from single phase power, than you might consider a Phase Perfect solid state converter as an alternative to a 40Hp RPC.
 
My plan is to use the Southbend as my 'daily' lathe for general turning. Heavy work will be turned on the Lodge and Shipleys as I get them going. They will be powered off the RPC, as will the K&T mill. I'm also looking at an Adcock and Shipley mill for smaller work. I'll probably go VFD for it as well and only use the RPC on the larger machines. The main reason I've got the monster K&T is because the price was too good to walk away from. The RPC is a Temco AC29.
 
+1 on @mksj comments.

I've installed 2HP TECO 510s on 2 HP 3PH motors, and they work splendidly...

A word of caution about cheaper offshore ones - don't worry, the ones I've seen work well - but used at their maximum wattage, they seem to heat up a bit more than I'm comfortable with. For a 2HP 3PH motor using a cheaper VFD, I'd be tempted to get a 3HP, to get a little head room, if I was going for an offshore one.
 
I am very fond of the Hitachi VFD's. They are very nicely built and well documented but a bit pricey. I have picked up a few of them used. I have a Fuji that has been flawless. TECO also makes an excellent VFD.

I have a saw running on a cheap Chinese VFD... I really can't tell any difference between it and the expensive named brand ones once it is connected up and running. My Chinese VFD is rated at 3hp and it running a 2hp bandsaw.

I have never had an issue using larger than motor rating VFD's.

If you are going to do a somewhat fancy control panel (FWD, REV, variable RPM, Jog, brake, etc.) with the lathe you are putting the VFD on a name brand might be better since they usually have quite good documentation and often a bigger feature set.
 
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I'm in the same camp, I have an RPC for the two big machines, a K&T 3K vertical (10HP), and a Monarch 612 (originally 20HP, downsized to 10HP with the 20HP used to build the RPC). I use a Teco VFD on my smaller 3HP Monarch 12CK. I could get away with the cheaper L510 since I didn't need braking options, that lathe has a clutch lever with braking action, so VFD braking is just a complication. While it means purchasing multiple VFDs, *my opinion* is that for 3HP or less, where you can easily get single phase input VFDs, they're a better solution than the RPC given issues balancing voltages over different power ranges on RPCs, plus the noise and remembering to turn the RPC on/off. Ironically, on the 12CK, I don't make much use of the VFD speed (frequency) changing features, since it's easy to clutch and change gears, but it is nice to have.
 
I suspect the pricier units use higher rated components so would probably be more reliable over time
-Mark
 
Not to hijack this thread, but there was a comment above regarding using a VFD on a single phase motor, utilizing only two of the three available legs from VFD's output, presumably to control the speed.

Does this really provide a speed control or other advantages?
 
@Papa Charlie I have never herd of this as a possibility. I would check the TECO/Westinghouse support folks before trying it.
 
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