Needing more than a spark test?

To add to the above, if the span of scanned energies is 80 KeV, each bucket would be .005 KeV wide. This would be far greater resolution than required for the application. Additionally, when sorting into bins, the smaller the bin, the greater the number of sample required to get meaningful distribution. I would suggest that a 10 bit A/D converter would give adequate resloution.
 
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Lead cannot be easily machined on a lathe and don't try to drill it! I have some lead tubular enclosures that may be of use.
I may have missed the physics on this, but what is the need for Mu metal? Would that be to enclose the PMT?
Robert
 
The lead tube can either be rolled from thinner material or cast.
 
Lead cannot be easily machined on a lathe and don't try to drill it! I have some lead tubular enclosures that may be of use.
I may have missed the physics on this, but what is the need for Mu metal? Would that be to enclose the PMT?
Robert
If one chooses the PMT (Photomultiplier Tube) as the sensor to see the scintillation flashes, it is an electron tube which progressively accelerates electrons into a series of anodes each at a progressively higher voltage. The electron stream is a current. It will get pulled by magnetic fields from nearby power supply transformers, cables motors, etc. Maybe you have seen the effect of a magnet on a CRT type TV.

The gain of a PMT is around 1million. Unwanted magnetic influences disturbing the innards will mess with the performance.

Mu-Metal shielding is the thin metal cover over CRT-type oscilloscopes, and the back end of some TV tubes. It is a soft grade of nickel-iron.
 
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Any idea of what the rate of gamma disintegration events is for Am241? .9 uCi is equivalent to 33,000 Bq or 33,000 disintegrations per second but the vast majority of those are alpha emission. This information would be helpful in determining the maximum number of fluorescence events per unit time.
 
Any idea of what the rate of gamma disintegration events is for Am241? .9 uCi is equivalent to 33,000 Bq or 33,000 disintegrations per second but the vast majority of those are alpha emission. This information would be helpful in determining the maximum number of fluorescence events per unit time.
Working on it. I have seen it somewhere in the stuff I have been reading, but failing that, I can calculate it.
8 sources of Americium 241, each 0.9 microCuries, with a half-life of 432.90 years, and we can guess that it was likely in a reactor sometime in the last 50 years. Pretty much all of it is still there.

We shield it, so what goes backwards and sideways hits the lead. What remains going forward onto the sample will be about 1/6th of the photons that started out. We scatter some of those anyway, but my loose, "wet-finger-in-the-air" estimate is about 1/8th of the x-rays hit the test sample surface. does a photon go deep before it encounters an atom - I don't know.

You deserve a better answer, so let me get back to you on that.
 
I'm a little behind in the discussion since H-M was down for a bit. Anyway, to comment on some of the recent discussion points....

1. A/D resolution and speed. My comment here is based on reading through the Theremino gamma spectrometer information. They are using the 16 bit A/D on a USB sound card, so it's limited to a maximum sampling rate of 192KSPS. That's not nearly fast enough to capture the pulses coming out of a PMT, so they are stretching the pulses using a simple 2-pole low pass filter, then amplifying by 100 to get the pulse amplitude back high enough to get decent numbers out of the A/D. This is a "nice" approach because it permits the use of _very_ inexpensive A/D's; and the drivers are generally included with the computer OS (the Teensy approach would use the provided audio library to accomplish the same thing). The LP filters also improve the SNR which helps improve the resolution of the multi channel analyzer.

The cheap A/D kit from PJRC can be found here

The Theremino group also has some information regarding the energy resolution (in FWHM) vs A/D bits. You really do want at least 14 bits. I believe more bits is better due to the method they use to find the pulse peak in the presence of noise and the inevitable misalignment of sample time relative to the peak -- it is highly unlikely you will actually sample the peak, so some form of curve fit or interpolation is needed. The energy resolution is completely dependent on how accurately the peak voltage can be measured. You'd then conclude that one of the fancier audio A/D's that can get to 24 bits would be better yet: but in fact those A/D's really don't give you true 24 bit resolution. From what I've read on the web about this, the lower 4 bits are basically noise. So 16 bits is the sweet spot in terms of "real" system performance.

2. Regarding shielding. Ebay has 1/8" thick lead sheet for not a lot of money. I was figuring on cutting strips and rolling them into tubes, with the ends overlapping to avoid leakage. Another approach would be to nest a small tube inside a larger one and fill the gap with lead shot. You'd need a thick enough layer to make sure no stray x-rays got through there, but that also could be a way to form odd-shaped shielding pieces -- make a mold, fill it with lead shot and pour in some casting resin.

3. PMT's ARE sensitive to magnetic fields. SiPM's are not.....although the Hall effect still is in play, apparently it doesn't affect solid state detectors to any significant degree.

On a slightly different note, I found some WAV files some folks had made, recording pulses coming from a scintillator/PMT combo. They also can be found on the Theremino web site. I have some ideas on improving the data processing over & above what the Theremino folks are doing, and I can play with those by using the WAV files -- no hardware needed! In addition, there's no reason why we couldn't do the same and share the WAV files to evaluate/compare our results. The only downside is that even a few minutes worth of recording produces large WAV files. It probably would be best to put them on something like Google Drive or the like -- I suspect H-M wouldn't permit the attachment of files that are tens of MB in size....
 
Working on it. I have seen it somewhere in the stuff I have been reading, but failing that, I can calculate it.
8 sources of Americium 241, each 0.9 microCuries, with a half-life of 432.90 years, and we can guess that it was likely in a reactor sometime in the last 50 years. Pretty much all of it is still there.

We shield it, so what goes backwards and sideways hits the lead. What remains going forward onto the sample will be about 1/6th of the photons that started out. We scatter some of those anyway, but my loose, "wet-finger-in-the-air" estimate is about 1/8th of the x-rays hit the test sample surface. does a photon go deep before it encounters an atom - I don't know.

You deserve a better answer, so let me get back to you on that.
Regarding the implied question in your last sentence. The x-ray penetration depth depends on the atomic weight(s) of the materials in the scintillator crystal (higher Z is better). You want ALL of the x-ray photon energy absorbed in the crystal -- if the photon passes through the crystal without being completely absorbed, the flash of light is weaker and "looks" like it was generated by a lower-energy photon. That is one reason why you would expect larger crystals to produce higher resolution, and why it's very important to direct as much of the scintillator's light output to the detector as possible. RJ's comment about using some sort of light pipe to capture the light is very relevant to this discussion.

Calculating the incident flux of x-rays from the Americium would require knowing the solid angle subtended by the sample, relative to the source. Plain old illumination calculations will do that. As far as the total x-ray flux generated by .9 uC, based on Wikipedia, it looks like the 59.5Kev gamma emission is associated with the emission of an alpha particle, so the gamma flux should be pretty close to the number of breakdowns/second .9 uC gives you.
 
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BTW, one curie = 3E9 decays/second. So .9 uC = 9E-7*3E9 = 27E2, or 2,700 alphas/gammas per second. Multiply that by the number of Americium "buttons" you've got & there you go.

What is the emission rate of a thorium lamp mantle supposed to be?
 
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According to the above, 1 uCi = 37,000 Bq or 37,000 disintegrations/sec. so your .9 uCi button will have around 33,300 events/sec or 200K events for the six buttons. I would expect that most of those events are alpha emissions. Otherwise, that would be a very hot source. It is the gamma emission that you're interested in so you need to know the ratio of alpha to gamma.

I'm guessing that you will have to capture several thousand fluorescence photons to develop a meaningful spectrum. That plus the emission rate of the sources , along with various efficiencies, will determine the sample time. Smaller energy buckets will improve resolution but will take longer to build a spectrum. A thousand buckets would probably provide enough resolution; something like .06 KeV per bucket.
 
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