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New 5c Collet Chuck and Collets! :)

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wrmiller

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#1
A very generous friend took pity on me and bought me a TMX set-tru 5c collet chuck, and a set of 35 collets (1/16" spacing?). To say that I'm grateful doesn't come close, and I'm a bit embarrassed by all this, but I'll get over it. :)

The chuck is a TMX. I'd never heard of them, but when the chuck arrived it is stamped 'Made in Poland' and looks suspiciously like a Bison. My friend says they are identical, so maybe they come from the same factory?

The collet set is from Precision Matthews. I want to be able to grab pretty much any diameter, and this should do the trick. I read somewhere that there are sets with 1/64" spacing, but that they are very costly. Anyway...

I mounted the backing plate and checked TIR. I was reading about .0005", so marked the current indexing and gave it a 'fuzz pass'. Checked again and I can't measure the runout. Cool. Mounted the chuck to the backing plate, put a dti on the shoulder inside the nose and adjusted the chuck. Then I put a 0.5 gauge pin in the 1/2" collet and put that in the chuck. Saw about .0005" TIR on the outside of the gauge pin about 1" from the nose of the chuck. Proceeded to chuck up a piece of 1" 7075 and made a couple of cleanup passes. Pulled the piece out and measured a diameter variation of .0002" across 2.7" of length.

I've never owned or used a 5c collet chuck, so did I do this right? If so, I'll attribute the .0002" of taper to part flex and leave well enough alone. :D

Some pics:
IMG_0977.jpg
IMG_0979.jpg
IMG_0982.jpg

It's such a cute little chuck, compared to my 8.5" PBA. :)
 

mksj

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#3
TMX is Bison, I believe TMX (Toolmex) is the US distributor. Top notch chucks, you will really enjoy using the 5C collets for smaller work. Also saves the fingers when working close to the chuck ......:eek 2:
Mark
 

wrmiller

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#4
I have been doing mostly smaller stuff of late, so this will work well. It also is a bit narrower than the PBA, so turning radius' and balls should be a bit easier.

Wish I'd had this chuck when I had to make that firing pin for a friend's hundred and thirty year old rifle. It would have been a lot less scary. :)
 

Ulma Doctor

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#5
it's good to have good friends!
congratulations!!! :grin:
 
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#6
Congrats Bill, what a fantastic gift!

Mark is correct, the Toolmex TMX Tru Set 5C is made in the Bison factory. Sometime back Toolmex tried getting these made in Asia, was unhappy with the outcome, and fairly quickly changed to the Bison manufacturing in Poland. These are very nice chucks.

The 5C setup with your PM1340GT is going to be a game changer for you. For example, chucking threads and not damaging them is made easy with this collet chuck.

With some help from Mark and others, I researched this chuck early last year and found it can be an attractively priced competitor to the Bison version. My research also convinced me that it is likely an equal performer to the Bison branded chuck. By the way, I bought one through Precision Matthews. Turns out that Matt can get these for you at a very competitive price.

Here's your chuck zoomed in a bit to flag the "made in Poland" badge:

TMX.jpg
 
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Ray C

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#7
5C collet chuck. -Absolutely indispensable!

You'll be making free parts for your friend for quite some time.

Ray
 

wrmiller

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#8
5C collet chuck. -Absolutely indispensable!

You'll be making free parts for your friend for quite some time.

Ray
He said these were for 'services rendered' as I have been helping him out a bit. Not sure I did enough to warrant these, but I'll take 'em. :)

The PM collet set appears to be pretty darn accurate. When I unpacked each collet, I did a quick debur on a hard 3M wheel, and then did a light pass over the threads on a scotchbright (the maroon one) wheel. They cleaned up real nice.
 

wrmiller

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#9
The 5C setup with your PM1340GT is going to be a game changer for you. For example, chucking threads and not damaging them is made easy with this collet chuck.
I like the idea of being able to grab the outside of a 1911 barrel without damaging it. :)
 
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#10
Like others have mentioned, The 5C scroll chuck is an invaluable addition to any lathe work. Your abilities to quickly change out collets from 1.125" and down will be a time saver in the long run with very precise holding especially for your gunsmithing.

You have a special friend Bill, obviously your special to him/her. We're fortunate to have friend/s like this. I too have been blessed with a special friend made only possible by this site.
Congratulations on your 5C system.
Paco
 

wrmiller

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#11
Like others have mentioned, The 5C scroll chuck is an invaluable addition to any lathe work. Your abilities to quickly change out collets from 1.125" and down will be a time saver in the long run with very precise holding especially for your gunsmithing.

You have a special friend Bill, obviously your special to him/her. We're fortunate to have friend/s like this. I too have been blessed with a special friend made only possible by this site.
Congratulations on your 5C system.
Paco
Changing out parts is quick, but I'm finding that changing out collets is not as quick. :)

I'm going to make a little 9mm square drive that will fit in my DeWalt impact driver. THEN I'll be changing collets quickly. :D
 

mksj

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#12
Make a 5C speed handle, works great and takes about 10-15 seconds to switch out a collet. Repurposed the speed handle from my vise and used collet blocks to cut the hex and square key out of 1" steel stock. I am always hesitant to use a power drive as the 5C collets (at least mine) often needs to be jiggled a bit to catch the threads.
20180201_093621.jpg
 

wrmiller

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Make a 5C speed handle, works great and takes about 10-15 seconds to switch out a collet. Repurposed the speed handle from my vise and used collet blocks to cut the hex and square key out of 1" steel stock. I am always hesitant to use a power drive as the 5C collets (at least mine) often needs to be jiggled a bit to catch the threads.
View attachment 257714
Now there's an idea! Thanks Mark. Ah...what's a collet block?
 
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#14
Collet blocks are handy for use in the mill. The block holds the collet, you cinch down your workpiece, and use your mill vise to hold the block. I have these in 5C and ER40 versions. Perhaps there are more. EDIT: These then work like a mini indexer.

Here's an example of the 5C set at Amazon. Note that a spanner is best to tighten the ring but a pare of channel locks works in a pinch. There are some blocks out there that come with the spanner.

Now that you are set up with 5C's you're going to need a set! BTW, I have seen where folks use these in a lathe but I am betting the runout would be unacceptable to me and why do that when you have a nice 5C chuck?

1518373672118.png
 
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Ray C

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Collet blocks are handy for use in the mill. The block holds the collet, you cinch down your workpiece, and use your mill vise to hold the block. I have these in 5C and ER40 versions. Perhaps there are more. EDIT: These then work like a mini indexer.

Here's an example of the 5C set at Amazon. Note that a spanner is best to tighten the ring but a pare of channel locks works in a pinch. There are some blocks out there that come with the spanner.

Now that you are set up with 5C's you're going to need a set! BTW, I have seen where folks use these in a lathe but I am betting the runout would be unacceptable to me and why do that when you have a nice 5C chuck?

View attachment 257735
These things are really handy. Love e'm. One thing to watch for though... If you do milling operations, make sure the collet is tight!

Ray
 

wrmiller

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#16
Thanks Alan! There appears to be much to learn about all things 5c related. :)

I recently acquired (another 'for services rendered'...don't ask. ;) ) a BS-1 and thought this would be an excellent little task to give it a try on.

New BS-1.jpg
 

Ray C

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Thanks Alan! There appears to be much to learn about all things 5c related. :)

I recently acquired (another 'for services rendered'...don't ask. ;) ) a BS-1 and thought this would be an excellent little task to give it a try on.

View attachment 257745
You got any more friends that need some parts made?
 

wrmiller

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#18
ROFL!! :D
 
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#19
Very nice indexer Bill! Yes, another PM sourced item. They work well but can be classified as a "Herniator" - spelled heavy.

The little 5C collet blocks will be your go to often vs. the BS-1. But The BS-1 is invaluable when needed.
 

wrmiller

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#20
Yea, the BS-0 might have been a wiser choice. I told the wife that I may need to buy one of those little 'heavy duty' roll around carts from HF to store my PBA, the indexer, and my rotary table on. I forsee the day when I don't want to walk across the garage with either the BS-1 or my PBA. :eek:
 

Ray C

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Very nice indexer Bill! Yes, another PM sourced item. They work well but can be classified as a "Herniator" - spelled heavy.

The little 5C collet blocks will be your go to often vs. the BS-1. But The BS-1 is invaluable when needed.
I heard the original BS-1 units shipped with a one-size-fits-all truss.
 

wrmiller

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I heard the original BS-1 units shipped with a one-size-fits-all truss.
Yea, this thing gives new meaning to the term 'heavy iron'. It weighs about the same (probably a bit more TBH) as my large lathe chuck. If I have to move/use both in the same day I will have gotten all the exercise I need for that day, that's for sure.
 

mksj

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#23
My rotary table with chuck and mounting plate comes in at around 130lbs, not a lot of fun getting it up on the mill table. My collet blocks get a lot more use for quick stuff. One of these days I would like to get a 5C indexer for the mill.

A few comments on using a 5C chuck or 5C blocks with a stop system. There are stops that screw into the back of the 5C collet which are handy, but since a 5C is pulled into the chuck when tightening, the stock's absolute positioned can changed slightly as the collet is tightened (depends on the chuck or collet lock system). So on the lathe, if I need to do a lot of repeat work or multiple pieces that need to be in the same exact position relative to the spindle every time, then I use a through the spindle stop system. When using the collet blocks, for repeat pieces (in/out) I always use a stop against the piece I am machining and not the collet block. If just machining one piece and it is not being taken out of the collet, then fine to index off of the collet block. So for cutting a hex or square, I just index the collet block against a stop to cut each flat.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...e-chuck-stop-for-pm-1340gt.63292/#post-523145
 

wrmiller

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#24
Ha! My 'little' 6" rotary never got upgraded to a 8" (it was on the 'list' but I ran out of job/money), so I will likely appreciate that in the future. ;)

I saw somewhere, a flanged 5c holder that might attach to my rotary table as a means to use 5c collets on it though. I'll have to go search ebay.
 
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#25
My rotary table with chuck and mounting plate comes in at around 130lbs, not a lot of fun getting it up on the mill table. My collet blocks get a lot more use for quick stuff. One of these days I would like to get a 5C indexer for the mill.

A few comments on using a 5C chuck or 5C blocks with a stop system. There are stops that screw into the back of the 5C collet which are handy, but since a 5C is pulled into the chuck when tightening, the stock's absolute positioned can changed slightly as the collet is tightened (depends on the chuck or collet lock system). So on the lathe, if I need to do a lot of repeat work or multiple pieces that need to be in the same exact position relative to the spindle every time, then I use a through the spindle stop system. When using the collet blocks, for repeat pieces (in/out) I always use a stop against the piece I am machining and not the collet block. If just machining one piece and it is not being taken out of the collet, then fine to index off of the collet block. So for cutting a hex or square, I just index the collet block against a stop to cut each flat.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...e-chuck-stop-for-pm-1340gt.63292/#post-523145
Thanks for the reminder Mark. I remember your build on the stop and had intentions to build one but it is still on the list.
 

pacifica

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#26
My rotary table with chuck and mounting plate comes in at around 130lbs, not a lot of fun getting it up on the mill table. My collet blocks get a lot more use for quick stuff. One of these days I would like to get a 5C indexer for the mill.

A few comments on using a 5C chuck or 5C blocks with a stop system. There are stops that screw into the back of the 5C collet which are handy, but since a 5C is pulled into the chuck when tightening, the stock's absolute positioned can changed slightly as the collet is tightened (depends on the chuck or collet lock system). So on the lathe, if I need to do a lot of repeat work or multiple pieces that need to be in the same exact position relative to the spindle every time, then I use a through the spindle stop system. When using the collet blocks, for repeat pieces (in/out) I always use a stop against the piece I am machining and not the collet block. If just machining one piece and it is not being taken out of the collet, then fine to index off of the collet block. So for cutting a hex or square, I just index the collet block against a stop to cut each flat.

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/thr...e-chuck-stop-for-pm-1340gt.63292/#post-523145
I use my yuasa 5c indexer a lot on the mill, it is very light but holds well and I put in the Kurt vise and it easily holds .0005.
Tend to not use 8" rotary table with the 4 jaw chuck due to weight.
I use ellis dividing head w. 4 jaw chuck more, it is lighter and tilts.
 

9t8z28

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#27
Can you be more specific on how you cleaned up the collets ? I bought a cheap set off of eBay and it sounds like I had the same issue with sharp edges. Even the inside of the collets has sharp edges and would lightly scratch the part. I deburred them all with a small file but have noticed that the collets are marking up the inside of the 5C collet chuck nose where the tip of the collet sits. The threads on the collets are pretty rough but work surprisingly well.
They are really good collets for the price and run true enough for the work I do.
He said these were for 'services rendered' as I have been helping him out a bit. Not sure I did enough to warrant these, but I'll take 'em. :)

The PM collet set appears to be pretty darn accurate. When I unpacked each collet, I did a quick debur on a hard 3M wheel, and then did a light pass over the threads on a scotchbright (the maroon one) wheel. They cleaned up real nice.
e did you use the hard 3M wheel
He said these were for 'services rendered' as I have been helping him out a bit. Not sure I did enough to warrant these, but I'll take 'em. :)

The PM collet set appears to be pretty darn accurate. When I unpacked each collet, I did a quick debur on a hard 3M wheel, and then did a light pass over the threads on a scotchbright (the maroon one) wheel. They cleaned up real nice.
 

wrmiller

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#28
I didn't have any 'issues' with the collets per se, but I do like to use my 3M wheel to debur and make things work a bit smoother. :)

I cleaned up the end of the threads for smoother engagement, and did a light corner break on the outside edge of the OD taper on the other end. I have a maroon scotch bright wheel that I used lightly on the collet's threads just to debur them.
 

9t8z28

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#29
Ok thanks. I think your referring to the quick lock 2” or 3” scotch brite and platic backed abrasive disks that mount on a die grinder. If that’s the case I have them and I will give that a try to clean them up a bit further. This is my first 5C collet set and I didnt want to do anything to them that I couldnt reverse. I did purchase 40 used Hardinge and Royal 5C collets that are sized in between the 17 piece fractional collets from China. I will look at the better less used USA made collets and see how they are deburred. I can tell you without looking at the USA made collets that they are not sharp like the China collets! Much safer to handle!
I didn't have any 'issues' with the collets per se, but I do like to use my 3M wheel to debur and make things work a bit smoother. :)

I cleaned up the end of the threads for smoother engagement, and did a light corner break on the outside edge of the OD taper on the other end. I have a maroon scotch bright wheel that I used lightly on the collet's threads just to debur them.
 

wrmiller

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#30
Actually, I use a 6" 3M wheel and a 6" scotchbrite wheel (for golf club heads) on a Craftsman variable speed grinder. :)

I build/rebuild golf clubs too. What can I say, I'm a tinkerer. :D
 
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